Health Care..what do you think?

[sherri_chickie]

Firstly.. who says our doctors only make half of what American doctors do? Where's that statistic from?

Secondly "we" read the post about my infection as being accusatory that I wouldn't have gotten the infection in the states, because how the heck do we know if I would or would not have? I personally don't think I would have been approved to have the surgery in the states to be totally honest, as it was, it was elective here. ( no acute attacks)


I am not in any way saying that the current bill is the right way to go about bring universal healthcare to the US. I am sure that there are many ways of making sure that everyone has access to insured healthcare. If you have great private insurance, you should be able to opt to stay with it, no question there. Maybe there has to be a way to hold HMO's accountable for the procedures that they turn down that result in someone's death?

I am in a unique position in that I know many people from the U.S. who have lost spouses after both trauma and prolonged illness and I have heard several stories of how some of them are in serious financial difficulty, their life savings wiped out ( with insurance) or how their spouses were denied treatment and as a result died. This has not happened to everyone of course, but in Canada, this happens to NOBODY.

I think that the US needs to develop their OWN type of system that the country can run and manage, we are not a perfect model here, I don't claim that, but I for one think it pretty much works for Canada.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

Firstly.. who says our doctors only make half of what American doctors do? Where's that statistic from?

Secondly "we" read the post about my infection as being accusatory that I wouldn't have gotten the infection in the states, because how the heck do we know if I would or would not have? I personally don't think I would have been approved to have the surgery in the states to be totally honest, as it was, it was elective here. ( no acute attacks)


I am not in any way saying that the current bill is the right way to go about bring universal healthcare to the US. I am sure that there are many ways of making sure that everyone has access to insured healthcare. If you have great private insurance, you should be able to opt to stay with it, no question there. Maybe there has to be a way to hold HMO's accountable for the procedures that they turn down that result in someone's death?

I am in a unique position in that I know many people from the U.S. who have lost spouses after both trauma and prolonged illness and I have heard several stories of how some of them are in serious financial difficulty, their life savings wiped out ( with insurance) or how their spouses were denied treatment and as a result died. This has not happened to everyone of course, but in Canada, this happens to NOBODY.

I think that the US needs to develop their OWN type of system that the country can run and manage, we are not a perfect model here, I don't claim that, but I for one think it pretty much works for Canada.

I lived in Germany for 3 years and was privy to my wife's health care plan and it seemed on the up and up. She went to the doctor whenever she pleased and was treated for whatever bothered her. In fact, when I got into an automobile accident, I stayed in a German hospital for a couple weeks before I was moved to an Army hospital.

Oh and my fiance' died because she couldn't afford health care and let her asthma get out of hand. She made too much money to get Medicare but not enough to afford the doctor bills... Funny, how with all of these "altruistic" health care professionals we have in this country, no one offered to help her for free.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

Maybe there has to be a way to hold HMO's accountable for the procedures that they turn down that result in someone's death?

I'm curious if there has ever been someone who died as a result of a procedure being denied. Even here in America, hospitals, doctors, etc can't deny a life saving procedure to anyone regardless of income, insurance or if they are an illegal alien who just murdered 100 police officers and 15 kittens.

[cbrchick]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Um so if your boss came up to you tomorrow and told you that you were going to have to take a 50% pay cut you would say, "Oh that's okay because I only do this for the warm, fuzzy feeling I get from helping others."

Do you actually read anything before you post the crap...

"I'd say 99.9% of people don't go into the medical field for the money. There are far better ways to make more money and actually have a life. And the best and the brightest go into fields that suit them - from palliative care to cardiac surgery - not into which that pay more..."

- I don't have a "boss" that decides what I make
- While it's a living, I certainly could have choosen a different field that would have made me more money with less stress. Much like Tommy who works in the US...

A fuck it... Having a discussion with you is pointless. It's not like really care what you think.

[wildchild]

I think the problem with the socialized coverage would end up being the rates that docs/pharmacies/and any med techs would charge to the gov't. rather then appreciating the fact they won't have to deal with no pays, they would suddenly be gettign paid for all care and the pay for them would be great.
a second problem is that WAY TOO MANY people here when given free anything tend to abuse it in an incredible way. people would be running little junior to the doctor everytime he forgot to wipe his ass enough for fear it may cause a rash. "doc could you please clean him properly?".
their justification for it would be "hey it's free we might as well use it right?"

Americans are very greedy and selfish and definitely want to make sure they get more out of any free system then their neighbor.

[CrazyKell]

Originally Posted by cbrchick

Do you actually read anything before you post the crap...

No I don't think he does.

The amount of idiocy I see in this thread is astounding.

Keep your system Americans. And keep your "rah rah rah" about it. Oh and while you're at it, keep on thinking you're in first and way out front. Thing is....you're so far ahead you're actually last!

[sherri_chickie]

Fleck750.. I can totally respect that, after all governments do have an innate ability to screw up almost anything they touch..lol

I have a friend who is Canadian but has been living in the states for 13 years or so. He has always had great insurance through work and has no problems with it, I think the problem starts when you don't have great insurance. I know some school divisions in the U.S won't pay for health benefits for teachers (found that out from a friend who moved from her state to texas to work because of that) My late husband always worked full time as an electrician and never had coverage through his work. That is where the problem lies, how do we cover those people?

[Fleck750]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

Fleck750.. I can totally respect that, after all governments do have an innate ability to screw up almost anything they touch..lol

I have a friend who is Canadian but has been living in the states for 13 years or so. He has always had great insurance through work and has no problems with it, I think the problem starts when you don't have great insurance. I know some school divisions in the U.S won't pay for health benefits for teachers (found that out from a friend who moved from her state to texas to work because of that) My late husband always worked full time as an electrician and never had coverage through his work. That is where the problem lies, how do we cover those people?

In all the places I've worked, I've had ONE place that I could actually afford the premiums. Most places were at least $40-$60 per week. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're only bringing home $300 a week, it's a lot.

I had no insurance when I had my m/c wreck. Total bill for 1.5 days stay, too many scans to count, 4 staples in my shin came to $27,000. Can I pay it? No. I tried to set a payment plan with them, but the hospital wanted it all paid in a year. Yeah. Right.

I would rather sit home and die before I'll go to a hospital again.

So, like 1/3 of all Americans, hospitals and doctors are something that is out of my reach.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

My late husband always worked full time as an electrician and never had coverage through his work. That is where the problem lies, how do we cover those people?

My old job of moving pool tables I was 10-99d (and only grossing about 22k) which is basically like working for yourself and you pay your taxes at the end of the year since nothing is taken out. I bought private health insurance for $150 a month (single with major surgery history of a splenectomy). Sounds like a lot but a lot of people spend more than that on their cell phone bill or cigarettes (which tend to put people into hospitals). I don't believe I ever met someone who couldn't afford health insurance if they gave up some luxuries of life.

One problem is by buying my own private health insurance I wasn't allowed to deduct the cost like people who work for a company that provide it. Such as if your weekly paycheck was say $500 and they take out $50 a week for insurance, the government only makes you pay taxes on $450. Without the reduction that 50 a week is $2600 a year extra the government will tax you (which for some can move you from a lower tax bracket to the next one up). At lets say 15% on that 2600 you spend roughly $400 extra a year in taxes vs someone who is using a company. I could have made $500 weekly and spent 475 on health insurance and I'd still pay taxes as if I made $500 a week. That's our government's way of encouraging dependency. A great fix would have been letting people who don't have work healthcare deduct the health insurance costs from their taxes.

We are also prohibited from buying insurance across state lines. I believe shitville actually has only 1 major health insurance provider because of some government hacks who set the system up for political favors. Let it be where I can say fuck you to an insurance company here in Georgia and buy insurance from somewhere in California then that insurance company I told to fuck off is going to work on ways to make their company more appealing to consumers who can take their money wherever they want.

And the private sector is making huge strides in providing cheap healthcare. Walmart and Krogers have $4 a month prescriptions on generic drugs. Don't kid yourself, Walmart is loosing money on those drugs but are making it up by having you wonder around and buying stuff. Which to me it seems like everybody wins there. Drug companies are happy, Walmart is happy, and you are happy about that new 52" LCD you just bought where you can watch that lesbian on MSNBC bitch about the cost of healthcare and how the government needs to do something about it.

Oh yeah, then you have the walk in clinics that are popping up everywhere, with many of them 24 hours and cheap which then frees up our ERs which makes hospitals happy becuase they tend to want to tend to the auto-accident people who are insured and WILL pay the hospital.

There are tons of solutions but the problem is trying to get hte government to give up power. Blood from a stone would be easier.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

We are also prohibited from buying insurance across state lines. I believe shitville actually has only 1 major health insurance provider because of some government hacks who set the system up for political favors. Let it be where I can say fuck you to an insurance company here in Georgia and buy insurance from somewhere in California then that insurance company I told to fuck off is going to work on ways to make their company more appealing to consumers who can take their money wherever they want.

I agree with this 100% and listed it as one of the two things that healthcare reform must have if the politicians are actually serious in my earlier post. They keep bleating about how they only want a government option as a way to inject competition in to the health insurance market. At the same time they refuse to allow interstate purchasing of insurance. This single change would massively increase competition, it would be immediate, and wouldn't cost taxpayers a dime. Doing so would apparently be much too effective so the politicians want nothing to do with it.

As for comparing the American and Canadian systems, it is an interesting exercise, but ultimately means nothing in the context of healthcare reform in America. What is being proposed bears no resemblance to the system in Canada. Even if the bill gets passed as is the American system will still be closer to the old American system than Canada's system.