Leno recieves '09 GSXR1000

[Trip]

Leno will be in knoxville this weekend if any of you want to find him.

[marko138]

Originally Posted by Fleck750

I'm hoping Leno will turn his garage into a museum one day.

I'm hoping Leno will stop taking dongs in his butt one day.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

See but here's my problem with that. If your engine configuration sucks then don't expect the sanctioning body to change the rules to accommodate you. Maybe Buell, Ducati, Aprillia, etc should take a page out of BMW's playbook. All I ever hear from V-twin lovers is how much "better" that engine configuration is (V-Twin FTMFGDW,right Cutty,Marko) , well prove it straight up. I mean how proud can Buell owners be that the only way they could compete was if the rules were tailored to benefit them? The most embarrassing thing right now is that they STILL aren't totally running away with the races. You mentioned the "good ol' days" when it was 750 I4 vs 1000 V2, well you should be loving 600 I4 vs 1125 V2!

Well, it isn't straight up equal. You can't get as much valve area in 2 cylinders as you can with 4 at equal displacement. Because of this and the power pulses coming half as frequently as an I4, it feels different, this is what people like from twins. BTW opposed twins have additional issues compared to V-twins.

Now you can write the rules to favor I4's which will reduce the number of other configurations racing, or you can handy cap differences to make for a more diverse field.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

Well, it isn't straight up equal. You can't get as much valve area in 2 cylinders as you can with 4 at equal displacement. Because of this and the power pulses coming half as frequently as an I4, it feels different, this is what people like from twins. BTW opposed twins have additional issues compared to V-twins.

Now you can write the rules to favor I4's which will reduce the number of other configurations racing, or you can handy cap differences to make for a more diverse field.

Hey I don't want them to write the rules to favor anything. If the I4 is a better engine package then Buell,Ducati, etc needs to walk away from V2 motor if they want to compete. I mean you are basicly saying that the I4 is a better configuration for racing so why should companies that choose to use a weaker design get an almost DOUBLE cc advantage? You don't see the FIM allowing Ducati to field a 1600 in MotoGp. If Suzuki/Honda were smart, they'd quick develop an 1100 cc V2 motor and drop it in their liter bike chassis and wipe the floor with that Buell.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Hey I don't want them to write the rules to favor anything. If the I4 is a better engine package then Buell,Ducati, etc needs to walk away from V2 motor if they want to compete. I mean you are basicly saying that the I4 is a better configuration for racing so why should companies that choose to use a weaker design get an almost DOUBLE cc advantage? You don't see the FIM allowing Ducati to field a 1600 in MotoGp. If Suzuki/Honda were smart, they'd quick develop an 1100 cc V2 motor and drop it in their liter bike chassis and wipe the floor with that Buell.

I'm not saying that an 1125 should be in a 600 class, just that a liter twin has different potential than a liter I4.

As for FIM they allow Ducati about 1200 cc vs the 1000 I4 in WSBK, and with MotoGP, you haven't read the rules very closely have you? The FIM has a weight penality based on the number of cylinders, a performance based handycap.

And the reason they have these rules in the first place, is that with more cylinders you can make more hp for a given displacement. A 6 will make more power than a 4, 8 more than 6, 12 more than 8. And you can see the same progression, and then rules to limit performance in F1.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

I'm not saying that an 1125 should be in a 600 class, just that a liter twin has different potential than a liter I4.

As for FIM they allow Ducati about 1200 cc vs the 1000 I4 in WSBK, and with MotoGP, you haven't read the rules very closely have you? The FIM has a weight penality based on the number of cylinders, a performance based handycap.

And the reason they have these rules in the first place, is that with more cylinders you can make more hp for a given displacement. A 6 will make more power than a 4, 8 more than 6, 12 more than 8. And you can see the same progression, and then rules to limit performance in F1.

That's true and I considered an edit. Regardless, it's not a DOUBLE penalty. Besides, everyone should race with the best engine package technologically available. If it is an I4 great but if it isn't then change your package, don't change the rules to suit your 100+ year old engine set up. As far as limiting performance, I totally understand that and they can do that but let's not penalize the teams that are smart enough to arrange those cylinders in a way that makes the most power. For example, if the cylinder number limit is 8, an advantage shouldn't be given teams that CHOOSE to build an engine with those cylinders in a line, or radial, or a v, or boxer style, etc. Hey do your testing and run what you brung!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

See but here's my problem with that. If your engine configuration sucks then don't expect the sanctioning body to change the rules to accommodate you. Maybe Buell, Ducati, Aprillia, etc should take a page out of BMW's playbook. All I ever hear from V-twin lovers is how much "better" that engine configuration is (V-Twin FTMFGDW,right Cutty,Marko) , well prove it straight up. I mean how proud can Buell owners be that the only way they could compete was if the rules were tailored to benefit them? The most embarrassing thing right now is that they STILL aren't totally running away with the races. You mentioned the "good ol' days" when it was 750 I4 vs 1000 V2, well you should be loving 600 I4 vs 1125 V2!

aprilia is a good example of a company that will experiment with configurations to suit the bike's chassis. strictly sticking to four strokes here but the milles and derivatives were twins (which at the time were the dominant layout for that series) the RS3 was an over the top triple on roids', and the new bikes are narrow angle V4. im kinda babbling here but they dont belong on your list.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dave

aprilia is a good example of a company that will experiment with configurations to suit the bike's chassis. strictly sticking to four strokes here but the milles and derivatives were twins (which at the time were the dominant layout for that series) the RS3 was an over the top triple on roids', and the new bikes are narrow angle V4. im kinda babbling here but they dont belong on your list.

They are racing a V2 1000 cc bike against 600 cc I4s so yes, they do belong on this list for now anyway. I hear what you are saying and I agree that Aprillia is better than Buell or Ducati in that respect. I still give the most props to BMW. They are a huge corporation and I believe were a sponsor at one time. They probably could have managed to muscle their way in with a 1200+ cc boxer engined bike if they had wanted to but they chose to build a bike that would be competitive without having a 40+% cc advantage written into the rulebook.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

They are racing a V2 1000 cc bike against 600 cc I4s so yes, they do belong on this list for now anyway. I hear what you are saying and I agree that Aprillia is better than Buell or Ducati in that respect. I still give the most props to BMW. They are a huge corporation and I believe were a sponsor at one time. They probably could have managed to muscle their way in with a 1200+ cc boxer engined bike if they had wanted to but they chose to build a bike that would be competitive without having a 40+% cc advantage written into the rulebook.

aprilia's ama effort is a stopgap measure, racing what they have now in what classes it slots into. they've already stated that they're switching to rsv4s next year. which definately wont be up against 600s

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dave

aprilia's ama effort is a stopgap measure, racing what they have now in what classes it slots into. they've already stated that they're switching to rsv4s next year. which definately wont be up against 600s

Truth! Okay, you win Aprillia is off the list.