wow. local MSF inst. trying to pawn off zx-12r to a new rider - Page 4

neebelung · 01-14-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

All the teenage drivers in Camaros and Mustangs passed driver's education too, but guess how many of those cars die early with front end damage.

On your next commercial flight, do you want a guy that landed a couple simulated flights the previous weekend?

Proficiency can't be learned in a weekend. Yes, he'll be better off than someone that hasn't taken the course, but that's not saying much.

Great post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Throttle will kick you off on either bike. The 12r with its extra weight and stability would actually be a better bike to fuck up the braking part on.

What's that old adage....?

A 600cc bike can kill you.
A 1000cc bike WANTS to kill you.

pickle.of.doom · 01-14-2009, 01:58 PM

2 and 4 wheels cannot be compared. Neither can an MSF class and the joke that most places call driver's education.

neebelung · 01-14-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Neither can an MSF class and the joke that most places call driver's education.

Well, ya might have a point there...

NeonspeedRT · 01-14-2009, 02:39 PM

I don't think the rider in the original post has even taken the MSF class yet. However even if he has, when a rider completes the MSF class, doesn't mean they are no longer a "new rider". Everyone progresses at a different level. The only way someone is no longer a "new rider" is experience and seat time.

Everyone's learning curve is different. Even if I had a star student who aced everything, come through the class. I would never think of suggesting they start on a literbike or hyperbike.

Sure they may be able to ride from point a to point b just fine. But throw in traffic, stress, the first time they go into a corner too hot, heat, cold, and the fact they are still new riders into the equation and they are asking for trouble.

Just a tidbit of info. Do you know how many motor skills it takes to correctly drive a car? Starting, stopping, shifting gears, changing lanes, parking, and so on? Roughly about 48 motor skills.

Do you know how many motor skills it takes to correctly ride a motorcycle? Starting, stopping, changing lanes, shifting gears, and so on? Closer to 240 motor skills. Big difference there.

Sure not every rider is the same. Maturity level goes along way towards the riding/learning curve. This goes back to the age old debate about starter bikes. We all know people who have started on liter bikes or bigger. Some of those "new riders" become great riders. Others make the headlines in the news.

However ask most of those people who started on bigger bikes if they wish they had started on something smaller and the majority will say yes. If you ask the guys who started on smaller bikes if they wish they had started on a bigger bike and the majority will say no.

The bottom line is no MSF coach should encourage any new rider to start out on a 12R, Busa, GSXR1000, or any liter/hyper bike.

pickle.of.doom · 01-14-2009, 02:44 PM

What does coming into a corner too hot have anything to do with whether you are on a 600 or 100?

neebelung · 01-14-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

The bottom line is no MSF coach should encourage any new rider to start out on a 12R, Busa, GSXR1000, or any liter/hyper bike.

Worth repeating.

pickle.of.doom · 01-14-2009, 02:54 PM

Or any 600 supersport

shmike · 01-14-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Throttle will kick you off on either bike. The 12r with its extra weight and stability would actually be a better bike to fuck up the braking part on.

That is what I thought.

I'm glad I sold my 600. I didn't realize the brakes were so poor until I read this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Or any 600 supersport

Or any motorcycle.

Ed,

Would you sell your 800 to a newb?

RACER X · 01-14-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

The bottom line is no MSF coach should encourage any new rider to start out on a 12R, Busa, GSXR1000, or any liter/hyper bike.

due to political pressures and such, i bet your state coordinators would advise you not to go that route, but a more diplomatic open answer vs NO THOSE bikes are not suitable.

"Would you sell your 800 to a newb?" prolly not, but $ talks, w/ 60+K she ain't worth much. kekeke

neebelung · 01-14-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Or any 600 supersport

I don't disagree with that either.

01-14-2009, 01:58 PM	#32
pickle.of.doom el diablo de verde Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Howell, MI Moto: VTR, CBR, DRZSM Posts: 1,046	2 and 4 wheels cannot be compared. Neither can an MSF class and the joke that most places call driver's education. __________________ WOS Forums

01-14-2009, 02:39 PM	#34
NeonspeedRT At Large Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Jax, FL Moto: 2005 R1 Posts: 678	I don't think the rider in the original post has even taken the MSF class yet. However even if he has, when a rider completes the MSF class, doesn't mean they are no longer a "new rider". Everyone progresses at a different level. The only way someone is no longer a "new rider" is experience and seat time. Everyone's learning curve is different. Even if I had a star student who aced everything, come through the class. I would never think of suggesting they start on a literbike or hyperbike. Sure they may be able to ride from point a to point b just fine. But throw in traffic, stress, the first time they go into a corner too hot, heat, cold, and the fact they are still new riders into the equation and they are asking for trouble. Just a tidbit of info. Do you know how many motor skills it takes to correctly drive a car? Starting, stopping, shifting gears, changing lanes, parking, and so on? Roughly about 48 motor skills. Do you know how many motor skills it takes to correctly ride a motorcycle? Starting, stopping, changing lanes, shifting gears, and so on? Closer to 240 motor skills. Big difference there. Sure not every rider is the same. Maturity level goes along way towards the riding/learning curve. This goes back to the age old debate about starter bikes. We all know people who have started on liter bikes or bigger. Some of those "new riders" become great riders. Others make the headlines in the news. However ask most of those people who started on bigger bikes if they wish they had started on something smaller and the majority will say yes. If you ask the guys who started on smaller bikes if they wish they had started on a bigger bike and the majority will say no. The bottom line is no MSF coach should encourage any new rider to start out on a 12R, Busa, GSXR1000, or any liter/hyper bike. __________________ MSF Rider Coach Motorcycle Training Institue Inc "Riding a motorcycle is like playing chess. Anyone can learn the moves, but it takes a lifetime to master the game."

01-14-2009, 02:44 PM	#35
pickle.of.doom el diablo de verde Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Howell, MI Moto: VTR, CBR, DRZSM Posts: 1,046	What does coming into a corner too hot have anything to do with whether you are on a 600 or 100? __________________ WOS Forums

01-14-2009, 02:54 PM	#37
pickle.of.doom el diablo de verde Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Howell, MI Moto: VTR, CBR, DRZSM Posts: 1,046	Or any 600 supersport __________________ WOS Forums