Solar, electric cars, batteries, and making money without trying.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Trip

You still don't see how the grid works.

No. I don't give a fuck how it works. That's what YOU aren't getting.

The fact is, I do understand how the law works, and the law says that they have to buy back your current.

As to "how" it's done...I really don't care. The fact remains that it IS done every single day, and that a number of approved systems already exist that CAN do this - so I don't NEED to know HOW.

Got it? I'm not looking to reinvent the fucking wheel here.

I need to know if a typical approved system would still be profitable to operate without the panels (ie. only as a "bank" of current).

If this is beyond your ken, say so...it's well beyond mine.

But my question is not one of HOW, it's one of efficiency and ROI on a panel-less system.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

No. I don't give a fuck how it works. That's what YOU aren't getting.

The fact is, I do understand how the law works, and the law says that they have to buy back your current.

As to "how" it's done...I really don't care. The fact remains that it IS done every single day, and that a number of approved systems already exist that CAN do this - so I don't NEED to know HOW.

Got it? I'm not looking to reinvent the fucking wheel here.

I need to know if a typical approved system would still be profitable to operate without the panels (ie. only as a "bank" of current).

If this is beyond your ken, say so...it's well beyond mine.

But my question is not one of HOW, it's one of efficiency and ROI on a panel-less system.

I am answering your fucking question, you are too much of a dumbass to see what I am explaining.

If you want to power your house, sure you can not pay the utility for the usage you use from your system. If the grid doesn't need your current, you won't be selling them anything. They don't have to buy something they don't need and not receiving. If no current is flowing from your house on to the grid, then you don't sell them anything. They aren't using your batteries. You can connect it to the grid, but if it's not used, it's not used. Essentially, you don't make money.

Example time....

Independent generating peakers are usually online during the day and offline at night because the grid doesn't need them. If the grid isn't having a heavy usage day, like a cold front comes in during summer and people don't need the AC, then the independent peaker may not be needed that day and they won't sell anything.

Knowing the usage and needs of your local grid is very important to understanding the profitability of your system. Batteries just don't dump their load at your wish and charge at your wish...

You are not going to be base generation, you will be swing generation. Your selling and charging times will be dependent on the grid needs.

So answering your question on profitability of your system without knowledge of what is going on over there is impossible.

[Trip]

‘(11) NET METERING.—Each electric utility shall make available upon request net metering service to any electric consumer that the electric utility serves. For purposes of this paragraph, the term ‘net metering service’ means service to an electric consumer under which electric energy generated by that electric consumer from an eligible on-site generating facility and delivered to the local distribution facilities may be used to offset electric energy provided by the electric utility to the electric consumer during the applicable billing period.

Here is that law you keep bitching about.

See this part right here "electric energy generated by that electric consumer from an eligible on-site generating facility and delivered to the local distribution facilities."

Yeah, see that part "delivered" if your system isn't delivering power, you aren't getting paid. The grid decides when it will accept your power for it's use. Just cause you have a battery bank tied on, doesn't mean it's going to deliver the energy it holds on your whim. It will deliver it when the grid demands it. Knowing how the grid works is essential to knowing your profitability of the system.

[Avatard]

Trip, there are numerous systems running today (it's actually quite common) that sell current back to the grid. This isn't rocket surgery.

Cut the shit. Just say you don't know...

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Trip, there are numerous systems running today (it's actually quite common) that sell current back to the grid. This isn't rocket surgery.

Cut the shit. Just say you don't know...

I have "So answering your question on profitability of your system without knowledge of what is going on over there is impossible."

I need much more information to make any sort of guess. How much usage you use, how large a bank you are going to be using, the grid demands, and generation.

Is it possible to save money? Yes, it's very possible to save money. Will you turn a profit over time after the cost of the sysem is canceled out? That's up in the air. I have no idea with the information you have given us. It's not a possible calculation. That's what makes power generation such a risky venture.

If it's not rocket surgery, go get your EE degree and get a job in the field. Power sales and power prediction is a very demanding and lucrative job. Many many companies have failed to accurately do it.

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by caveman

Trip, I can't believe that you haven't totally ripped this idea to shreds. This system would never work. Once you try to parallel your power source to the grid if you are not exactly in sync with the system grid you will back feed your system and KA-BLOOEY. That's why our Diesel Back-up generators that we use on the plant premesis for emergencies have sync-check breakers when we are running them parallel to the grid.

Once you install any sort of solar system with a battery bank, that part of the system is on a throwover switch that won't let you parellel with the grid. Because more than likely you will not be putting out enough power to overcome grid voltage and the back-feed will blow out your system and possibly light your house wiring like a christmas tree. Think about what would happen to your house if it weren't grounded properly and lightning struck it. ZZZZAAAAAPPPP!!!!!!!!!

The only thing with solar is for your own use. No selling back allowed and your local utility will tell you to they are in the business of making CAISH MONEY, not paying out $$$ to peeps who think they can store their power and return it to them.

Some countries are able to sell extra power from a windmill back to the power company.

James

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Flexin

Some countries are able to sell extra power from a windmill back to the power company.

James

Don't mind him, he is subject to the regulation of nuclear and hasn't seen the wonderland that is regular old fashion power generation. We can't do shit in nuclear without written permission to do so by 40 managers, 3 senior reactor operators, and the NRC.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Avatard

.....What if you said fuck the car, fuck the solar panels, but just hook up a shitload of batteries? ...And then charge them at night when the rates are low, and sell that shit right back to the grid during peak hours...and fucking MAKE MONEY for doing absolutely SHIT (my single favorite concept of all time)?

Why not just "bank" current?

1. There are heat losses. So you are going to transfer 3 phase A/C current to DC then back to three phase current with lead acid batteries? Ummm...yeah.

2. They probably charge you more for the night wattage then what they would pay you for the day wattage current you would be giving them.

This is how a typical musician thinks ....and we wonder why 90% of buisnesses fail. lol

[Captain Morgan]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Trip, there are numerous systems running today (it's actually quite common) that sell current back to the grid. This isn't rocket surgery.

Cut the shit. Just say you don't know...

Good grief, you're being a dumbass. I don't know shit about power generation or consumption, yet I can still understand what trip is saying. And I can see that he's answered your question, but you refuse to accept his answer.

You can't just "charge at night" and "sell during the day" because the system doesn't work like that. If it was that simple, every Joe Schmoe would buy a damn bank of batteries and sit on his ass making money. Hell, you might never make a profit because your system might just charge during the day and sell at night, thus, costing you money. Figure out how the system works in your area and then you'll get an idea whether it's even possible to make a profit.

[Avatard]

I'm the dumbass? That's rich.

You're right about one thing though, you don't know shit.