Minor Winter Project - installing suspension worth 1/3 of the bike

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

Hmmm...or spend the $3-4,000 on a more up to date bike, just sayin'

I did that the last time, then spent another $2200 on suspension anyway

When you buy a bike it's made for the "average" rider, with all sorts of compromises made. They use things like progressively wound springs, rather than a straight-rate spring of appropriate rating. I don't really believe in progressively wound springs. In many cases when you set the proper sag for your weight, you'll end up using up almost all of the lowest spring rate anyway.

Unless you weigh 150 pounds the odds are that your suspension isn't properly set up for you, on a sportbike. It tends to be set up on the plush side, rather than the performance side of the equation. Having springs that are better suited to your weight, whatever it might be, can only help. Aftermarket shocks also tend to have better damping control, as the stock units are made to a cost. Many have little or no effect from adjustment.

So I spend less than $7500.00 on the bike, then toss $2000.00 at it in suspension components, and get a bike that handles better for me than the one for $3-$K more would. Horsepower is largely immaterial, on the street.

[Homeslice]

The 150-lb target might have been true several years ago, but nowadays most of the SS 600's and liter bikes are set up for heavier people. I know a lot of people including myself who have swapped in softer springs. Especially Kawis and Yamis. My 2005 R6 was way oversprung, and the people at Racetech confirmed it. Same goes for first generation 675's and 636's.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

The 150-lb target might have been true several years ago, but nowadays most of the SS 600's and liter bikes are set up for heavier people. I know a lot of people including myself who have swapped in softer springs. Especially Kawis and Yamis. My 2005 R6 was way oversprung, and the people at Racetech confirmed it. Same goes for first generation 675's and 636's.

Over-sprung or under-sprung, it's still not the right spring rate for your weight

I have no idea what the stock spring rate is for the ER, as it doesn't appear to be in the shop manual, but I would guess it to be over-sprung like the Ninja 650R is (an insane 1.2Kg/mm). I guess that they did this to hide the fact that they used damper rod forks, in what is nominally a sportbike.

Bikes like the SV650 are grossly under-sprung. They're perfect if you're a 120 pounder, but not so much for anyone else. My '00 VFR800 had something like 0.75 Kg/mm springs. I needed 0.95, and that was for a plush sport-touring style ride. I don't think that the more recent VFRs have stronger rate springs than that.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Over-sprung or under-sprung, it's still not the right spring rate for your weight

I have no idea what the stock spring rate is for the ER, as it doesn't appear to be in the shop manual, but I would guess it to be over-sprung like the Ninja 650R is (an insane 1.2Kg/mm). I guess that they did this to hide the fact that they used damper rod forks, in what is nominally a sportbike.

Bikes like the SV650 are grossly under-sprung. They're perfect if you're a 120 pounder, but not so much for anyone else. My '00 VFR800 had something like 0.75 Kg/mm springs. I needed 0.95, and that was for a plush sport-touring style ride. I don't think that the more recent VFRs have stronger rate springs than that.

TOTALLY agree with getting springs, I have done so on almost every bike I've ever owned-including cruisers. That's a couple hundred bucks max... Spending 2k on suspension on an old bike... Well, what about the brakes? Transmission? Unsprung weight? Rake and trail? Total bike weight? There have been advances in more that just hp bro... My bike now kicks the crap out of my old FZR1000 in every category, seriously.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Amber Lamps

TOTALLY agree with getting springs, I have done so on almost every bike I've ever owned-including cruisers. That's a couple hundred bucks max... Spending 2k on suspension on an old bike... Well, what about the brakes? Transmission? Unsprung weight? Rake and trail? Total bike weight? There have been advances in more that just hp bro... My bike now kicks the crap out of my old FZR1000 in every category, seriously.

Well, to start with, I've only done it on NEW bikes myself, not old ones. My ER is a 2009, bought new this year.

And just swapping out the fork springs potentially leaves you with a poorly damped setup. I'm dropping in a full cartridge setup for about $700.00

Brakes? I could replace the brake lines with stainless, but I've found that I get most of the benefit of them with just a pad swap.

Transmission? Works beautifully, thank-you very much. Especially so when I'm above 7K rpm.

Rake and trail? It's fine for me. Ergonomics were more of a concern, which I handled by just swapping the bars for a straighter set.

Unsprung weight? That would be nice, but the suspension alone will make the ride head and shoulders above the stock setup. If it comes right down to it I could likely do a wheel swap still coming out at less than that $3K more total that you stated, to which I would be adding $1.5-$2K in suspension mods anyway.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Well, to start with, I've only done it on NEW bikes myself, not old ones. My ER is a 2009, bought new this year.

And just swapping out the fork springs potentially leaves you with a poorly damped setup. I'm dropping in a full cartridge setup for about $700.00

Brakes? I could replace the brake lines with stainless, but I've found that I get most of the benefit of them with just a pad swap.

Transmission? Works beautifully, thank-you very much. Especially so when I'm above 7K rpm.

Rake and trail? It's fine for me. Ergonomics were more of a concern, which I handled by just swapping the bars for a straighter set.

Unsprung weight? That would be nice, but the suspension alone will make the ride head and shoulders above the stock setup. If it comes right down to it I could likely do a wheel swap still coming out at less than that $3K more total that you stated, to which I would be adding $1.5-$2K in suspension mods anyway.

Yea I dipped in at the suggestion that No Worries upgrade his suspension, I wasn't really refering to your bike, bro....

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Brakes? I could replace the brake lines with stainless, but I've found that I get most of the benefit of them with just a pad swap.
.

Truth..

I've added steel lines to 2 cars and 1 bike, and couldn't tell the difference. Never again.

[Papa_Complex]

Yeah, well he did a basic shock replacement, springs, and a fork brace

[Papa_Complex]

Yup, to each his own.

Regarding initial bite of the brakes, a friend and I traded bikes for a quick blast, back in July. He has a F800ST and, as stated, I've got a ER6n. After our personal modifications, the ergonomics on our bikes are virtually identical; the only slight difference is in peg position. His bike has incredible brakes, with a ton of initial bite, but his front forks have all the damping of open-cell foam. My brakes don't have anywhere near the same bite, but the stock forks are much better under braking. If I could get the best of both, I'd be quite happy.

Both bikes have damper rod forks.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Yup, to each his own.

Regarding initial bite of the brakes, a friend and I traded bikes for a quick blast, back in July. He has a F800ST and, as stated, I've got a ER6n. After our personal modifications, the ergonomics on our bikes are virtually identical; the only slight difference is in peg position. His bike has incredible brakes, with a ton of initial bite, but his front forks have all the damping of open-cell foam. My brakes don't have anywhere near the same bite, but the stock forks are much better under braking. If I could get the best of both, I'd be quite happy.

Both bikes have damper rod forks.

and are you both the same weight? Did you attempt to adjust his preload? Are you sure that the weight bias is the "same" between these bikes? Do the bikes weigh the same period? Did BMW really have the same intended market segment/intended rider type as Kawasaki? Were the tires the same? Same diameter/type forks? How about low/high speed compression settings? I think that you're comparing Granny Smith the Red Delicious here...