Health Care..what do you think?

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I know you seem sold a bill of goods, that our system is bad - and Canada good. I get that.

But, each side can give you answers to fit the situation you are looking for. I'm curious where you got your $4000 tab for children? I had two children and paid a total of $250 for EACH child. Granted, I don't recall what my monthly payments were - but I wasn't making a lot of money at the time, and neither was my ex-husband. I had a low level Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance plan... and that price included all prenatal vitamins, hospital stay, doctor visits, and followup. Maybe times have changed THAT MUCH in 15 years

Let's see, I have recently had a few procedures that weren't emergent - and were completely covered by insurance. Ooops, $25 co-pay. My husband even hurt himself trying to fly a motorcycle sideways - dislocated heel, copays for the doc and urgent care.

The most expensive thing I've paid for recently is $3,000 for my daughter's braces. Canada cover that one?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... is this qualified under "life"?

Wouldn't you think somebody who has first hand experience and lived under both systems would have a more indepth view of it? Kind of like how a mother of teenagers would know more about teenagers than somebody who didn't have teen aged children?

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Wouldn't you think somebody who has first hand experience and lived under both systems would have a more indepth view of it? Kind of like how a mother of teenagers would know more about teenagers than somebody who didn't have teen aged children?

You could also send Beavis and Butthead into outerspace but do you think they'll understand more about gravity and space vs a MIT grad who majored in astrophysics?

I'm also not taking the word of someone who "thinks" she isn't paying for her healthcare other than a little more in taxes without even considering that someone else out there who she has never met and has nothing to do with, paid the other $30,000 of her surgery. And that person only gave that money up becuase the government used it's policing power which is backed up by men/women with guns to take that money.

Wether government run healthcare would increase our lifespan by 30 years or not is irrelevant. It is a product/service that a citizen is forced to purchase by the government and it also involves taking someone else's money away too which is stealing. It's a moral issue more than anything.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by azoomm

Let's see, I have recently had a few procedures that weren't emergent - and were completely covered by insurance. Ooops, $25 co-pay. My husband even hurt himself trying to fly a motorcycle sideways - dislocated heel, copays for the doc and urgent care.

Congrats. You still pay monthly insurance fees for medical though, we dont.

The most expensive thing I've paid for recently is $3,000 for my daughter's braces. Canada cover that one?

My Sun Life insurance (my company pays for, not me) would have paid 85% of it. As well well as full cost for glasses(1x/18months), orthotic insoles(1x/year), massages (1x/month), and ALL prescribed medication costs me 1$.

If I get married and/or have kids, they are also covered under this policy, at, again, no charge to me.

Got anymore?

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Apoc

Congrats. You still pay monthly insurance fees for medical though, we dont.

Are you serious? Do you really feel like you aren't paying anything for your medical care?

Everyone from Canada argues that their doctors make a ton of cash, their equipment is top notch, they provide great care to people and somehow they do it for less than American's pay through private insurance companies who are competing for your hard earned money? All three of those things costs a shit ton of money. Doctors aren't going to work for free, top notch equipment (probably from America or Japan) isn't cheap, and the hospital staff isn't going to work hard if they aren't making that much. And just because the doctor makes a funny joke or the nurse gives you an extra special sponge bath doesn't mean it's a better system.

We argue day in and day out on here about how if you want a good quality motorcycle/tv/blowjob you have to pay for it. Why is healthcare any different and if Canada is as good as the US then who is paying for this great service that God himself condones???

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I know you seem sold a bill of goods, that our system is bad - and Canada good. I get that.

In much the same way that you are sold a bill of good that our system is poor and fraught with bureaucracy, that can see a government official decide whether you deserve to be treated or not. It's amazing the number of lies I hear about our system from American sources, on a daily basis. Sure, there are waits for elective surgery and non-critical care. You're not going to die up here because you can't afford a treatment though.

The simple truth is that Americans are too resistant to a system of true 'universal' health care for it to work down there, using the Canadian model. It will no more work there, than American style democracy will work in Afghanistan or Iraq. A compromise system is what is required. Those who choose to pay for comprehensive health care coverage would have a portion of their payments funnelled off, in order to help provide low cost health care for those who can't afford it.

But the problems in your system are more fundamental than that. Even if you have health care coverage, you had better not get seriously ill. The co-pays, alone, will pauper you.

The upshot is that each system excels in its own way. Ours can be improved. So can yours.

Originally Posted by RACER X

US population 308,109,000
CA " 33,869,000

we prolly have more freeloaders then they have population. lol

Perhaps you do, but characterizing all people who can't afford health care as 'freeloaders' is disingenuous.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

But the problems in your system are more fundamental than that. Even if you have health care coverage, you had better not get seriously ill. The co-pays, alone, will pauper you.

And here you are being sold a bill of goods about our healthcare system. This is only the case if your insurance is not particularly good. The value of anecdotal evidence is limited, but I know a number of people who have been seriously ill (primarily various cancers as well as some childbirth issues) and it hasn't come close to making any of them broke. Personally I had shoulder surgery requiring 3 months of rehabilitation. Total cost to me for everything was around $400. Sure, it happens to some people, but nowhere close to a majority.

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

The upshot is that each system excels in its own way. Ours can be improved. So can yours.

I agree that our system can be improved, as I have stated repeatedly. I don't think this bill will do it though.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by goof2

And here you are being sold a bill of goods about our healthcare system. This is only the case if your insurance is not particularly good. The value of anecdotal evidence is limited, but I know a number of people who have been seriously ill (primarily various cancers as well as some childbirth issues) and it hasn't come close to making any of them broke. Personally I had shoulder surgery requiring 3 months of rehabilitation. Total cost to me for everything was around $400. Sure, it happens to some people, but nowhere close to a majority.

Prior to the credit melt-down, health care costs were your nation's primary cause of insolvency. That points to a pretty large problem. Our problem is excessive wait times for non-critical operations.

I agree that our system can be improved, as I have stated repeatedly. I don't think this bill will do it though.

You may well be right. Even I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing and digest it, and I used to read religious and mythological works for fun.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but after having the "pleasure" of experiencing England's NHS I hope you aren't including their system in the "have it better" statement.

As far as something having to change I do agree with you. My problem is two concepts that I think would have large effects on the system as a whole are being ignored by those crafting the legislation. If the bill doesn't offer the ability to purchase insurance across state lines or contain some restrictions on medical malpractice lawsuits it tells me that those writing the bill would rather appease their lobbyists than craft effective legislation.

[Fleck750]

Can Canadian doctors or health practitioner be sued?

Do they carry malpractice insurance?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Fleck750

Can Canadian doctors or health practitioner be sued?

Do they carry malpractice insurance?

Yes and yes, but there are a lot more barriers for someone who wants to sue in Canada resulting in fewer suits, the trials are more often in front of judges rather than juries, plaintiffs win less often, average judgments are a fraction of what they are here, pain and suffering damages are capped in Canada, and Canadian doctors typically pay 10% or less of what malpractice insurance costs here.

The other factor is because Canadian doctors don't concern themselves with lawsuits as much they supposedly practice less defensive medicine. While lawsuits account for less than 1% of the cost of healthcare in America some estimates say defensive medicine accounts for 10% or more of America's healthcare costs (in 05 Medicare's administrator told Congress it was 9%).