Advice on the course?

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by neebelung

Here in FL, many schools offer what's called an ERC - Experienced Rider Course. It's recommended for riders with at least a year of riding experience, and it's taken on your own bike. Basically variations of some of the same exercises you learn in the BRC (Basic Rider Course), to learn the limits of your OWN bike, but in a controlled environment.

I believe it's a 1 day class, and runs about $100.

Oh I totally hear what you're saying and BTW I passed the MSF course twice and on my own bikes,which was a V-max the 2nd time and not some oversized moped I could carry around the course,so nyah thankyou! (the Army used to make you take it every so often) I've also taken track classes and the like. I am not against the MSF course itself! I just have a problem with MANDATORY that's all. I'm sure that every little bit helps to keep accidents down and all but we all know that taking driver's ed doesn't stop kids from driving like manics 5 minutes after they get their licenses! That's where the company you keep comes in. It's like when your parents told you,you shouldn't drink,smoke,have sex before marriage,etc but as soon as you're out of the house...it's on! I also find it strange that a state that recinded it's helmet law has made MSF mandatory. It all smacks of politics and money to me,that's all.

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

Here's the thing, it's not exactly mandatory. The state is no longer going to be giving the test, and you have to have an endorsement in order to register a motorcycle. But, MSF Schools can choose to offer a state-approved licensing test, which you take on your own bike, and after which you can go to the DMV and get your license. So you don't have to take the BRC.

I already know what you're going to say, and yes there will be a fee for the license test, but I think the cost is fixed by the state, and will most likely be ~$50. The fact is the person administering the test needs to be paid, plus there are costs associated with making and maintaining a range (the state-test uses a different layout than the MSF test, so you need a separate range).

Well then....nevermind! I was told it was mandatory! To me it would be like making veryone go to "Sears Driving School" before they could get a license!

[Mrs. Colleen]

Originally Posted by Ebbs15

I'd say get your gear and ride in that... that way your learning in the gear you'll be wearing anyways...

When I took the course that is exactly what I was thinking. Then I get there and there are only two other people with leather jackets and I am the only one in real riding boots. And most people's gloves did not cover their wrists.

I ALWAYS wear my riding boots so I wanted to make sure I was comfortable controling the bike with them on. I guess I was the only one...

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Now that states are starting to...well someone is getting rich! When I took the course it was like $30 or something,granted they didn't provide bikes or whatnot but frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the bikes were donated like drivers ed cars are. It's great advertising and can get new riders familiar with your brand.

Just a FYI for you. Unfortunatly nobody is getting rich off of the MSF program. MSF is still the federal branch. Local states that adopt the MSF follow the MSF guidelines, but have leeway in a few areas. The individual schools are still privately owned.

There are alot more costs involved then you think for running a school. They have to pay to: rent the range, rent the classroom, buy helmets, gloves, glasses, about 5 cases of water each weekend, bags of ice each weekend, the school pays us for coaching, maintance of the bikes, insurance on the bikes and students, maintance of the range, repaving of the range when necessary, the school also has to pay the state & MSF for the books and materials for the classroom.

Most motorcycle manafactures have stopped all their loaner programs. Even when a fleet of motorcycles is loaned from a dealership, the school is still responsible for all repairs and maintance on the bikes.

Most schools now purchase their own motorcycles for use. So thats a hefty out of pocket expense. Since you need at least 14 bikes. 12 is the max students you can have, but you want at least 1 or 2 back up motorcycles.

[neebelung]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I am not against the MSF course itself! I just have a problem with MANDATORY that's all.

Oh I know, I didn't take it that you were AGAINST it, I was merely trying to rationalize why the state is doing it this way.

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I also find it strange that a state that recinded it's helmet law has made MSF mandatory. It all smacks of politics and money to me,that's all.

ABSOLUTELY. The helmet thing pisses me off, too...

The state budgets X amount of dollars to motorcycle training, safety and education - a large portion of that goes to ABATE, who was a big player in the rescinding of the helmet law here.

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Colleen

When I took the course that is exactly what I was thinking. Then I get there and there are only two other people with leather jackets and I am the only one in real riding boots.

We actually tell students to check the weather and wear appropriate riding gear. Sometimes we'll even tell them just to wear a long sleeve shirt and no jacket.

During the summer, we've had temps of 107 on the range with no wind. So if you're cruising around at 15 mph with a jacket on and on the verge of heatstroke, you're not learning anything.

There comes a point where your mind goes into shutdown. We would rather prevent that and have the students be in approved riding gear, but comfortable.

Originally Posted by neebelung

ABSOLUTELY. The helmet thing pisses me off, too...

The state budgets X amount of dollars to motorcycle training, safety and education - a large portion of that goes to ABATE, who was a big player in the rescinding of the helmet law here.

We could all go on and on for days about that

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by NeonspeedRT

Just a FYI for you. Unfortunatly nobody is getting rich off of the MSF program. MSF is still the federal branch. Local states that adopt the MSF follow the MSF guidelines, but have leeway in a few areas. The individual schools are still privately owned.

There are alot more costs involved then you think for running a school. They have to pay to: rent the range, rent the classroom, buy helmets, gloves, glasses, about 5 cases of water each weekend, bags of ice each weekend, the school pays us for coaching, maintance of the bikes, insurance on the bikes and students, maintance of the range, repaving of the range when necessary, the school also has to pay the state & MSF for the books and materials for the classroom.

Most motorcycle manafactures have stopped all their loaner programs. Even when a fleet of motorcycles is loaned from a dealership, the school is still responsible for all repairs and maintance on the bikes.

Most schools now purchase their own motorcycles for use. So thats a hefty out of pocket expense. Since you need at least 14 bikes. 12 is the max students you can have, but you want at least 1 or 2 back up motorcycles.

Ok like I said I was told the course was mandatory which prompted that statement. But you did say the words "privately owned",it is my experience that few businessmen do things unless there is money to be made! I understand there are expenses to any business endevor and this is a business or why don't you all do it for free? Why not just charge enough to cover bike maint and course up keep? I think if you lowered the cost to say $50,the students could afford to buy their own water and helmets with the other $150. I would imagine $600 a class,two or three classes a week can cover the maint on some 250s and a lot. Anyway,I am NOT against taking the course,I am not against you or anyone making money,I am not against safety training,I am simply against gov't mandation of a private business to it's citizens!

[the chi]

i dont know whether its relevant or not but when I took the course, being a miltary dependent, the bases provide it free of charge and I beleive the instructors for our classes do it on a volunteer basis, both military instructors and civilians. So there is no money being made. The closest one if you arent military is more than an hour away and costs $300 and is split up over 2-3 weekends (i know its def at least 2).

Either way, even if i'd had to pay for it, I still would have taken it merely for the skills and knowledge I learned. There have been several instances in which I have used my knowledge from MSF without even consciously thinking about it and saved myself from serious wreckage...its worth whatever you pay to save your ass if needed!!

[m0n1]

I took the course about two years ago, paid about $250. During the call I made to sign up, the lady said its only $20 if your under 18! Two weekends, about 8 hours each day. One day in class, the other 3 on the course. Motorcycles, old 250cc cruisers, were provided. Helmets were available, but you had to wear a plastic hair net. Long sleeve shirt, jeans, ankle boots and gloves that covered the fingers. Very good experience.

We only had one guy get sent home. He dropped the bike during one of the maneuvers, they worked with him during break, but I guess he wasn’t getting it.

Everything that is on the riding test is what they teach, no surprises. The hardest part for me was the low speed figure eight. Had to put my foot down (better than dropping the bike). I believe a dropped bike during the test = fail.

Have fun, don’t try to be better than anyone out there, don’t register in the same class as a friend/sig other.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Rae

i dont know whether its relevant or not but when I took the course, being a miltary dependent, the bases provide it free of charge and I beleive the instructors for our classes do it on a volunteer basis, both military instructors and civilians. So there is no money being made. The closest one if you arent military is more than an hour away and costs $300 and is split up over 2-3 weekends (i know its def at least 2).

Either way, even if i'd had to pay for it, I still would have taken it merely for the skills and knowledge I learned. There have been several instances in which I have used my knowledge from MSF without even consciously thinking about it and saved myself from serious wreckage...its worth whatever you pay to save your ass if needed!!

Oh me too! I would have at least taken it for the ins discount if nothing else and I think you're right,it was free and the instructors were volunteers. They must have really felt it was important to donate their time that way! Too bad everyone isn't as committed to the cause of motorcycle safety!!!

[NeonspeedRT]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Anyway,I am NOT against taking the course,I am not against you or anyone making money,I am not against safety training,I am simply against gov't mandation of a private business to it's citizens!

I'm with you, but as Brian said, there will still be options for everyone.