Health Care..what do you think?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

I respect that and if I were to move back to Canada I would love to go to Alberta or BC. As I said it is a personal Preference and a Very Different Culture and not to be contrary but fist by my standard 33% is a Lot of money and by the time you factor in GST I bet you are paying 40% of your income to the federal Government. Again nothing wrong with that you get a standardized level of service. One of the major cultural differences that seems apparent to me is that In Canada , the citizen always seems to defer without much thought to the Centralized authority "for the good of the community" The down side to it (again a personal perception) is that while you get a standardized level of care you give up some choice and pay for the communities care with no option but to fund others bad choices. In the States we have an instinctive distrust of a centralized authority "I'm from the government I am here to help" is a long standing joke. We have more choices in terms of health care coverage but it is a personal responsibility. My Co Pay is never more than 1k a year, but I pay a bit more up front. Some of my health care costs are limited as my wife will never have children so I don't pay for maternity risks or coverage for minor children.
A lot of the screaming here in the states come from people who want to have what the other guy has without taking the risks or responsibilities that the other guy took to get it. As I said there is a lot to Admire about the Canadian system , having experienced it I would not choose to subject myself to it again.

One of the most ridiculous statements about the proposed healthcare bill is the Republicans who argue against this government administered program have no problem with their own government run healthcare. The statement would make sense if the two systems had any chance of being similar. There will be no similarities between them.

[Fleck750]

Originally Posted by goof2

Yes and yes, but there are a lot more barriers for someone who wants to sue in Canada resulting in fewer suits, the trials are more often in front of judges rather than juries, plaintiffs win less often, average judgments are a fraction of what they are here, pain and suffering damages are capped in Canada, and Canadian doctors typically pay 10% or less of what malpractice insurance costs here.

The other factor is because Canadian doctors don't concern themselves with lawsuits as much they supposedly practice less defensive medicine. While lawsuits account for less than 1% of the cost of healthcare in America some estimates say defensive medicine accounts for 10% or more of America's healthcare costs (in 05 Medicare's administrator told Congress it was 9%).

By defensive medicine, do you mean fewer tests to cover their ass?

Do you feel that the docs in Canada can make better judgments w/o the fear of litigation hanging over them?

I understand less frivolous lawsuits, but does it make it harder to prove that a doctor is a quack, or does your medical community have a board that takes complaints and yanks a bad doc out of the system?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Fleck750

By defensive medicine, do you mean fewer tests to cover their ass?

Yes

Originally Posted by Fleck750

Do you feel that the docs in Canada can make better judgments w/o the fear of litigation hanging over them?

I think doctors in both America and Canada make judgments that best fit their situation. American doctors are forced to be more "conscientious" of all potential issues, no matter the likelihood, to cover their asses.

Originally Posted by Fleck750

I understand less frivolous lawsuits, but does it make it harder to prove that a doctor is a quack, or does your medical community have a board that takes complaints and yanks a bad doc out of the system?

Doctors with repeated lawsuits and complaints have their malpractice insurance increase. In Canada they buy in a group and lawsuits have no effect on their premiums.

[Fleck750]

So there is no board of peers that investigate a bad doc and revoke their license to practice?

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by goof2

One of the most ridiculous statements about the proposed healthcare bill is the Republicans who argue against this government administered program have no problem with their own government run healthcare. The statement would make sense if the two systems had any chance of being similar. There will be no similarities between them.

First since Canadians are the world largest consumer per ca pita of Medical Tourism Services Obviously many Canadians with means do have a problem with their system ( still a good system) You are right the US will never have a single payer style system the way Canada does. The argument that a Centralized system will lower standards of care is a Solid one. an HMO is an HMO whether it is run by a private company or a Government Agency the system of Concurrent Review in the Democratic Bill is the same as Every other system of Concurrent review used by every Private Insurance Company. It has failed to save them money or control health care costs. It has consistently lowered the standards of delivery of care and limited choices to some degree for every US citizen since 1985. We can expect it to be worse under a Government run system. You can expect less choice because instead of fighting an insurance companies decision you are now left to fight a Federal Agency and a Federal Law. Again this might be worth it if it lowered Health Care costs or the Cost of Health Care Insurance. It does not and the prototype of what the Democrats have Misrepresented as Health Care Reform is Massachusetts . They have had their mandates and public options in place since 2006 it written largely by Ted Kennedy and cronies and was signed by then Republican Governor Mitt Romney. (the reason Republicans have not used this disaster to their advantage is that Romney Bragged about signing it )The Result is that MA has lost thousands of Jobs as businesses cut jobs to avoid mandates or moved out of the state all together. The cost of a Health care plan has risen at a least 15% as much as 40% in many cases with an average of 23% and the actual cost of Health Care is rising at about 50% faster than it was before the system went into place. Fact Centralized systems limit Choice (sometimes it worth it the disaster that the Democrats are pushing is not.)

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Fleck750

So there is no board of peers that investigate a bad doc and revoke their license to practice?

Each state has a medical board that makes decisions about medical licenses.

As far as determining if a doctor is a "quack", lawsuits aren't much of a help there since most of them never go to judgment, or even to trial. They are typically settled confidentially with no admission of guilt by the doctor.

To correct my answer to one of your earlier questions, by defensive medicine I mean running MORE tests to cover their ass, not less.

[Smittie61984]

I keep forgetting that we have a preview of American Healthcare. I grew up a military brat and went to military hospitals/doctors. I think I'd prefer going to a medicine man from Sierra Leon then back to a military hospital.

[derf]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

I keep forgetting that we have a preview of American Healthcare. I grew up a military brat and went to military hospitals/doctors. I think I'd prefer going to a medicine man from Sierra Leon then back to a military hospital.

The military healthcare isnt bad, but if you don't understand it, it is a burocratic nightmare. I personally like the idea of universal healthcare, but the US gov will mess it up real quick, I dont like the first solution that the proposed, it needs to be looked at by smarter people than politicians and worked from there.

[Tmall]

Originally Posted by azoomm

I know you seem sold a bill of goods, that our system is bad - and Canada good. I get that.

But, each side can give you answers to fit the situation you are looking for. I'm curious where you got your $4000 tab for children? I had two children and paid a total of $250 for EACH child. Granted, I don't recall what my monthly payments were - but I wasn't making a lot of money at the time, and neither was my ex-husband. I had a low level Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance plan... and that price included all prenatal vitamins, hospital stay, doctor visits, and followup. Maybe times have changed THAT MUCH in 15 years

Let's see, I have recently had a few procedures that weren't emergent - and were completely covered by insurance. Ooops, $25 co-pay. My husband even hurt himself trying to fly a motorcycle sideways - dislocated heel, copays for the doc and urgent care.

The most expensive thing I've paid for recently is $3,000 for my daughter's braces. Canada cover that one?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... is this qualified under "life"?

Wouldn't you think somebody who has first hand experience and lived under both systems would have a more indepth view of it? Kind of like how a mother of teenagers would know more about teenagers than somebody who didn't have teen aged children?

[Tsunami]

Originally Posted by cbrchick

I'd gladly pay higher taxes so that any of you could receive health care. But that's just the way we think in a social place

I rather pay higher taxes for that reason than to have it go to bail out big businesses!