Health Care..what do you think?

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had gall bladder surgery, and then went back in a few days later with a raging infection. How much did the operation cost me? $0. How much did a week in the hospital on morphine, percoset and antibiotics cost $0...I do pay more in taxes up here, but seriously the additional taxes is less than what I paid monthly for shitty insurance in the states.

Did the doctors work for free?

My problem with governmetn healthcare is someone like me who eats healthy, doesn't smoke, exercises, and doesn't stay at home drinking beer and eating hotwings yelling at a TV screen will be FORCED to pay for that person who doesn't eat healthy, doesn't exercise, smokes, and stays at home drinking beer and eating hot wings yelling at a tv screen.

The private sector always provides the best solutions and I prefer keeping it that way. The only reason our private insurance is fucked up now is because of government interaction.

Not to mention there is no constitutionality (American) to taking someone else's wealth and giving it to someone else which is also morally wrong.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Did the doctors work for free?

My problem with governmetn healthcare is someone like me who eats healthy, doesn't smoke, exercises, and doesn't stay at home drinking beer and eating hotwings yelling at a TV screen will be FORCED to pay for that person who doesn't eat healthy, doesn't exercise, smokes, and stays at home drinking beer and eating hot wings yelling at a tv screen.

The private sector always provides the best solutions and I prefer keeping it that way. The only reason our private insurance is fucked up now is because of government interaction.

Not to mention there is no constitutionality (American) to taking someone else's wealth and giving it to someone else which is also morally wrong.

It's the American way to worry about paying for the mooches...

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

idk... I'm deployed with a guy who's wife is canadian... they both hate the canadian healthcare system. Too slow and indecisive. She has been waiting 2 years to get her gall bladder removed.

I have a friend who's father went into the doctor, they found a problem and he was in the getting surgery a day or two later. For somethings there is a wait if your going to a specialist but that could happen anywhere.

James

[sherri_chickie]

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by azoomm

It's the American way to worry about paying for the mooches...

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Usually mis-attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville. I'm fine with him not being the one who said it. He strikes me as having been a douche of the highest order.

I find the statement especially interesting considering we recently passed the point where over half of the public has no federal income tax liability.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

I know you seem sold a bill of goods, that our system is bad - and Canada good. I get that.

But, each side can give you answers to fit the situation you are looking for. I'm curious where you got your $4000 tab for children? I had two children and paid a total of $250 for EACH child. Granted, I don't recall what my monthly payments were - but I wasn't making a lot of money at the time, and neither was my ex-husband. I had a low level Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance plan... and that price included all prenatal vitamins, hospital stay, doctor visits, and followup. Maybe times have changed THAT MUCH in 15 years

Let's see, I have recently had a few procedures that weren't emergent - and were completely covered by insurance. Ooops, $25 co-pay. My husband even hurt himself trying to fly a motorcycle sideways - dislocated heel, copays for the doc and urgent care.

The most expensive thing I've paid for recently is $3,000 for my daughter's braces. Canada cover that one?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... is this qualified under "life"?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but after having the "pleasure" of experiencing England's NHS I hope you aren't including their system in the "have it better" statement.

As far as something having to change I do agree with you. My problem is two concepts that I think would have large effects on the system as a whole are being ignored by those crafting the legislation. If the bill doesn't offer the ability to purchase insurance across state lines or contain some restrictions on medical malpractice lawsuits it tells me that those writing the bill would rather appease their lobbyists than craft effective legislation.

[Fleck750]

Can Canadian doctors or health practitioner be sued?

Do they carry malpractice insurance?

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

I respect that and if I were to move back to Canada I would love to go to Alberta or BC. As I said it is a personal Preference and a Very Different Culture and not to be contrary but fist by my standard 33% is a Lot of money and by the time you factor in GST I bet you are paying 40% of your income to the federal Government. Again nothing wrong with that you get a standardized level of service. One of the major cultural differences that seems apparent to me is that In Canada , the citizen always seems to defer without much thought to the Centralized authority "for the good of the community" The down side to it (again a personal perception) is that while you get a standardized level of care you give up some choice and pay for the communities care with no option but to fund others bad choices. In the States we have an instinctive distrust of a centralized authority "I'm from the government I am here to help" is a long standing joke. We have more choices in terms of health care coverage but it is a personal responsibility. My Co Pay is never more than 1k a year, but I pay a bit more up front. Some of my health care costs are limited as my wife will never have children so I don't pay for maternity risks or coverage for minor children.
A lot of the screaming here in the states come from people who want to have what the other guy has without taking the risks or responsibilities that the other guy took to get it. As I said there is a lot to Admire about the Canadian system , having experienced it I would not choose to subject myself to it again.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Fleck750

Can Canadian doctors or health practitioner be sued?

Do they carry malpractice insurance?

Yes and yes, but there are a lot more barriers for someone who wants to sue in Canada resulting in fewer suits, the trials are more often in front of judges rather than juries, plaintiffs win less often, average judgments are a fraction of what they are here, pain and suffering damages are capped in Canada, and Canadian doctors typically pay 10% or less of what malpractice insurance costs here.

The other factor is because Canadian doctors don't concern themselves with lawsuits as much they supposedly practice less defensive medicine. While lawsuits account for less than 1% of the cost of healthcare in America some estimates say defensive medicine accounts for 10% or more of America's healthcare costs (in 05 Medicare's administrator told Congress it was 9%).