Arizona bill would deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants

[the chi]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

While Kavanagh is absolutely wrong about the intent of The Framers, where the concept of being born to citizenship is concerned, I think that it would be a reasonable accommodation to state that the parents must actually be in the country legally for the 14th Amendment to apply.

This.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

While Kavanagh is absolutely wrong about the intent of The Framers, where the concept of being born to citizenship is concerned, I think that it would be a reasonable accommodation to state that the parents must actually be in the country legally for the 14th Amendment to apply.

Family enters US on work (or education) visa.
Family works in Utah(for example) for X amount of time. Establishes residency. Wife gets knocked up and they have child.
They decide to relocate to (for better paying job) Las Vegas.
Visa expires as HR at new company is working on sponsorship.
Neither parent has commited a crime under Federal law, Utah or Nevada law.
They have established residency in Utah and are therefore citizens of Utah entitled to all applicable rights and laws. As residents of Utah they are entitled to all rights and protections afforded by the Bill of Rights (" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ")

They take a wrong turn and end up in Arizona on there way to Las Vegas
The parents are imprisoned. The child, who has violated nothing and is a United States citizen as defined by the United States constitution and a resident\citizen of Utah is taken from the parents, placed in the Arizona foster care system (or just put into whatever orphanage, holding tank they have down there). The parents, who never commited a crime and were legal residents of another state are deported by Arizona.

Arizona is gangsta....

This is going to be awesome to watch from a safe distance.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Family enters US on work (or education) visa.
Family works in Utah(for example) for X amount of time. Establishes residency. Wife gets knocked up and they have child.
They decide to relocate to (for better paying job) Las Vegas.
Visa expires as HR at new company is working on sponsorship.
Neither parent has commited a crime under Federal law, Utah or Nevada law.
They have established residency in Utah and are therefore citizens of Utah entitled to all applicable rights and laws. As residents of Utah they are entitled to all rights and protections afforded by the Bill of Rights (" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ")

They take a wrong turn and end up in Arizona on there way to Las Vegas
The parents are imprisoned. The child, who has violated nothing and is a United States citizen as defined by the United States constitution and a resident\citizen of Utah is taken from the parents, placed in the Arizona foster care system (or just put into whatever orphanage, holding tank they have down there). The parents, who never commited a crime and were legal residents of another state are deported by Arizona.

Arizona is gangsta....

This is going to be awesome to watch from a safe distance.

Nice try.

Staying on an expired visa is illegal, therefore they have committed a crime. They are no longer legal residents of whichever state they came from.

It may not be intentional, it may not have been their fault but it happened.

If your visa is about to expire, you apply for an extension.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by shmike

Nice try.

Staying on an expired visa is illegal, therefore they have committed a crime. They are no longer legal residents of whichever state they came from.

It may not be intentional, it may not have been their fault but it happened.

If your visa is about to expire, you apply for an extension.

Yep. I don't know about Nevada or Utah law but simply staying past your visa is a violation of federal immigration law.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by goof2

Yep. I don't know about Nevada or Utah law but simply staying past your visa is a violation of federal immigration law.

You do know that you can break a law and not be a criminal?


Criminal
The body of law dealing with crimes and their punishment

Civil
The body of laws established by a state or nation for its own regulation

Around here, if I park illegally a cajillion times. I have commited no crime.
I have violated civil code.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by shmike

Nice try.

Staying on an expired visa is illegal, therefore they have committed a crime. They are no longer legal residents of whichever state they came from.

It may not be intentional, it may not have been their fault but it happened.

If your visa is about to expire, you apply for an extension.

OK fancy boy.

1. List the appropriate item from U.S. criminal code.

You do realise that I'm going to use the civil law card.
The only way I could use the criminal law card is if we were talking about folks busted for crossig the border.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

OK fancy boy.

1. List the appropriate item from U.S. criminal code.

You do realise that I'm going to use the civil law card.
The only way I could use the criminal law card is if we were talking about folks busted for crossig the border.

You are right.

Entering = criminal

Staying = civil

I didn't realize you were going to go all law professor on us, Obama.

I'd consider your parking BS a crime too but I didn't realize that you were going to pick my vernacular apart to suit your argument.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Family enters US on work (or education) visa.
Family works in Utah(for example) for X amount of time. Establishes residency. Wife gets knocked up and they have child.
They decide to relocate to (for better paying job) Las Vegas.
Visa expires as HR at new company is working on sponsorship.
Neither parent has commited a crime under Federal law, Utah or Nevada law.
They have established residency in Utah and are therefore citizens of Utah entitled to all applicable rights and laws. As residents of Utah they are entitled to all rights and protections afforded by the Bill of Rights (" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ")

They take a wrong turn and end up in Arizona on there way to Las Vegas
The parents are imprisoned. The child, who has violated nothing and is a United States citizen as defined by the United States constitution and a resident\citizen of Utah is taken from the parents, placed in the Arizona foster care system (or just put into whatever orphanage, holding tank they have down there). The parents, who never commited a crime and were legal residents of another state are deported by Arizona.

Arizona is gangsta....

This is going to be awesome to watch from a safe distance.

If the period of time they are permitted to be within the US at the time they are permitted entry is up, which isn't necessarily the length of time stated for the visa validity, then they are in the US illegally.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1298.html

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

If the period of time they are permitted to be within the US at the time they are permitted entry is up, which isn't necessarily the length of time stated for the visa validity, then they are in the US illegally.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1298.html

Yes it is illegal \ that is unlawful.
Illegal unlawful whatever you'd like to call it.

Unlawful \ illegal means that a law has been violated.
It simply means that someone said fuck off to a law on the books.

It does NOT mean a crime has been commited.
In order for something to be a crime it must violate penal\criminal law.

To jack off round the country with an expired Visa does not touch balls with Federal criminal law. It violates civil law.
Its not a crime to park in Handicapped parking spot but it is illegal.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Yes it is illegal \ that is unlawful.
Illegal unlawful whatever you'd like to call it.

Unlawful \ illegal means that a law has been violated.
It simply means that someone said fuck off to a law on the books.

It does NOT mean a crime has been commited.
In order for something to be a crime it must violate penal\criminal law.

To jack off round the country with an expired Visa does not touch balls with Federal criminal law. It violates civil law.
Its not a crime to park in Handicapped parking spot but it is illegal.

I disagree with your semantic discussion. Breaking a law, in this case a FEDERAL law, means that a crime has been committed.