Solar, electric cars, batteries, and making money without trying.

[karl_1052]

This guy did it.

http://www.bergey.com/Examples/Kemp.html

Although, he just does it for free electricity.

Don't forget wind generators. They are starting to become very popular in Ontario, and if Ontario Hydro thinks there is a profit in them, then there most likely is.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by caveman

Trip, I can't believe that you haven't totally ripped this idea to shreds. This system would never work. Once you try to parallel your power source to the grid if you are not exactly in sync with the system grid you will back feed your system and KA-BLOOEY. That's why our Diesel Back-up generators that we use on the plant premesis for emergencies have sync-check breakers when we are running them parallel to the grid.

Once you install any sort of solar system with a battery bank, that part of the system is on a throwover switch that won't let you parellel with the grid. Because more than likely you will not be putting out enough power to overcome grid voltage and the back-feed will blow out your system and possibly light your house wiring like a christmas tree. Think about what would happen to your house if it weren't grounded properly and lightning struck it. ZZZZAAAAAPPPP!!!!!!!!!

The only thing with solar is for your own use. No selling back allowed and your local utility will tell you to they are in the business of making CAISH MONEY, not paying out $$$ to peeps who think they can store their power and return it to them.

Some utilities do allow and endorse home solar/wind systems. They aren't going to let you connect your hillbilly 500 self designed system and they are going to have regulations on how you can do it, but some do allow it. A lot of the new solar homes connect to the grid. You do need a sync check system to tie on and off.

I am sure you are right on battery banks though, they won't dig it. They will force a throw over switch on that.

[Avatard]

Wow, it's as if no one knows how these systems work.

Sorry I asked here, I thought some of you guys might know something...

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Wow, it's as if no one knows how these systems work.

Sorry I asked here, I thought some of you guys might know something...

Are you butt-hurt because your idea won't work?

[Avatard]

No, shocked that no one even grasps WTF I'm speaking of.

Reading Is Fundamental.

The systems in use are phase-coherent, and CAN connect directly to the grid.

If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't comment.

I asked if someone here knew specifically if the efficiency of a battery-only system would be profitable (approximate ROI).

If you don't even know WTF the technology does, don't be a fucking ass.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Wow, it's as if no one knows how these systems work.

Sorry I asked here, I thought some of you guys might know something...

What exactly do you want to know? You haven't really asked anything of substance just generalizations and pipe dreams. I can't give you anything of value in response to that crap.

Most of the stuff you want to do is heavily regulated and determined by your local utility if you actually want it on the grid. I can't answer for a utility I do not have any connection or relation to, that's why you have to call them.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Trip

What exactly do you want to know?

Essentially this:

Originally Posted by Avatard

I asked if someone here knew specifically if the efficiency of a battery-only system would be profitable (approximate ROI).

Originally Posted by Trip

Most of the stuff you want to do is heavily regulated and determined by your local utility if you actually want it on the grid. I can't answer for a utility I do not have any connection or relation to, that's why you have to call them.

Actually, it's mandated by Federal law that they hafta buy back juice.

I was wondering about efficiency of a battery-only energy "banking" system, VS a full-on solar system, in regards to ROI.

I have a hunch it's ROI is actually better

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Essentially this:

Actually, it's mandated by Federal law that they hafta buy back juice.

I was wondering about efficiency of a battery-only energy "banking" system, VS a full-on solar system, in regards to ROI.

I have a hunch it's ROI is actually better

The grid is not like a bank where you can just submit all the amps you want and it will take it. It all depends on if your area needs power. If your area can generate it's own energy without buying it from other areas or you, then it's possible you won't backfeed much during the day at all. You may essentially just end up staying neutral and having the needle sit still or slowly rotate in their favor if you don't have a large enough system to sustain your own house during the day since you said you have a lot of electronics. Without knowing your details on your usage, the area's usage and buying habits, and how large of a system you plan to build, it's an impossible calculation.

They will also not just let you attach anything to the grid. They will have to worry about your neighbors and that your system can adequately connect without compromising the stability of the grid. (your system going boom and blacking out the neighborhood)

Electricity isn't something to play with because you are bored and want a neato project. It's serious shit that is heavily regulated. That's why I suggest contacting your utility and asking for one of their guys that know exactly what their rules are for the area to discuss your options.

[Avatard]

Geez Trip, et tu?

You think I'm an idiot?

I'm talking about using grid approved systems, exactly like the type in use today, that routinely (by law) sell current back to the grid.

This isn't the fucking black art you make it out to be.

I'm only talking about taking the solar panels our of the existing "typical" rig - nothing else changes.

By charging the batts off the grid when current is cheap, and then selling it back when demand is high, you can profit. I just wanted to know if losses and ROI cost makes it prohibitive.

This is already being done with managed charging systems for plug-in hybrids, and in fact RUNS ON FUCKING WINDOWS on the car's own computer [SYNC].

Apparently, I know more about this shit than all you guys...sorry I bothered y'all.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Geez Trip, et tu?

You think I'm an idiot?

I'm talking about using grid approved systems, exactly like the type in use today, that routinely (by law) sell current back to the grid.

This isn't the fucking black art you make it out to be.

I'm only talking about taking the solar panels our of the existing "typical" rig - nothing else changes.

By charging the batts off the grid when current is cheap, and then selling it back when demand is high, you can profit. I just wanted to know if losses and ROI cost makes it prohibitive.

This is already being done with managed charging systems for plug-in hybrids, and in fact RUNS ON FUCKING WINDOWS on the car's own computer [SYNC].

I am leery to give anyone advice on electrical systems over the internet. I have seen the repercussions of fuck ups. I rather not have my name tied to anything I haven't seen or touched.

You still don't see how the grid works. You aren't going to discharge your batteries at the time you wish and then charge them at a time you wish. The grid doesn't work that way. It takes what it needs when it needs it from where it wants. It's a very very very large calculation to determine where power will go. It can be likely that your batteries won't discharge at all during the day and may discharge at night when the peakers go offline and the system needs more amps.

Ask any non electrical focused engineer and they will call electricity a black or invisible art. It's a very strange science when you get in depth into the theory of electron flow on the level of a major grid.