Observations on braking...Long winded. - Page 2

DLIT · 10-17-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIMford

I think this was good post. Nice to read about good riding technique and riding in general. It seems lately that alot of what's posted lately on the boards is not riding related.

Lately? Always.

No Worries · 10-17-2008, 08:59 PM

I'm not a believer of using only the front brake, or of braking real hard for a corner. To me, coming out of the corner is the most important and the most fun.

Here's what Lee Parks in Total Control says: "anything that abruptly interferes with the suspension can cause a significant loss of traction. For this reason, it is important to apply the brakes simultaneously and as smoothly as possible."

Here's what Parks says about braking and suspension movement: "When using the brakes, be sure not to apply them too quickly. When this happens, the rear wheel is prone to skidding, and the front end will dive rapidly, causing major instability. A good measure of proper application is minimal suspension movement."

For me to take my old bikes quickly down a steep, twisty road like Lookout Mountain, I have to use both brakes. If I just use the front brake, the assistance of gravity and nose dive might be too much for my front tire. I also have to use the front and rear smoothly to keep the front end from bouncing up and down as I brake for the corner, lean, and accelerate to the next corner.

Dnyce · 10-17-2008, 09:12 PM

one thing some1 mentioned awhile back was not to weight the bars, have a loose upper body, etc when riding. that shit is a ridiculous ab workout to maintain that while on the brakes.

jeeps84 · 10-18-2008, 10:17 AM

I use both front and rear on or off track. I usually cover the front softly settling the front suspension while trailing the rear till I make the transition to pull the trigger on the exit.

Amber Lamps · 10-18-2008, 04:41 PM

Congratulations! This is definitely a Tigger worthy thread! Hahahahaha.

Personally,I've totally lost it since my last deer encounter. I am however getting a handle on it again. One of my problems has been getting used to my bike again. I think that you are right about your braking issues and I think that you are on the right track to a cure. Good luck!

Cutty72 · 10-18-2008, 09:14 PM

I learned at my track day that I rely too much on engine braking. It works well on the street, as I use the brakes sparingly, but on the track, hard late braking is key.

FT BSTRD · 10-18-2008, 09:47 PM

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

My braking tends to be as much about chassis settling as speed reduction. Many times I will use the rear to scrub speed and trail brake as well as settle the chassis a little.

I've got really long suspenders up front, so hard braking tends to yield significant dive and chassis movement. Therefore, I work to scrub off the minimum amount of speed for the curve and trail brake with the rear to settle the chassis.

I think everyone's style is a little different. My style is dictated, to a certain degree by the bike.

marko138 · 10-18-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

My braking tends to be as much about chassis settling as speed reduction. Many times I will use the rear to scrub speed and trail brake as well as settle the chassis a little.

I've got really long suspenders up front, so hard braking tends to yield significant dive and chassis movement. Therefore, I work to scrub off the minimum amount of speed for the curve and trail brake with the rear to settle the chassis.

I think everyone's style is a little different. My style is dictated, to a certain degree by the bike.

Play by the Buell's rules and they often reward you.

No Worries · 10-19-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat.

Then you would love riding up and down Lookout Mountain. There are no straights. It's one curve after another. Some are tight, and some are less tight. So most bikes are on an equal footing, especially going downhill. I saw two Buell's going down when I was going up today.

On the switchbacks or hairpins, how much entry speed do I want for a 15mph curve? Enough to keep from tipping over, but not so much I cross the double yellow. Here's what I think about when hitting such a curve. Both brakes on, downshift, look for my line (usually in one of the tire tracks), start leaning off the bike, look around the curve, don't cross the centerline, and don't go into or off the mountain. Then I can accelerate to the next curve.

Going uphill on many of the curves, you don't need the brakes, just engine braking and downshifting. What a terrific sound and what a feeling. But you most certainly need to use the brakes correctly to go quickly and smoothly downhill.

FT BSTRD · 10-19-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Worries

Then you would love riding up and down Lookout Mountain. There are no straights. It's one curve after another. Some are tight, and some are less tight. So most bikes are on an equal footing, especially going downhill. I saw two Buell's going down when I was going up today.

On the switchbacks or hairpins, how much entry speed do I want for a 15mph curve? Enough to keep from tipping over, but not so much I cross the double yellow. Here's what I think about when hitting such a curve. Both brakes on, downshift, look for my line (usually in one of the tire tracks), start leaning off the bike, look around the curve, don't cross the centerline, and don't go into or off the mountain. Then I can accelerate to the next curve.

Going uphill on many of the curves, you don't need the brakes, just engine braking and downshifting. What a terrific sound and what a feeling. But you most certainly need to use the brakes correctly to go quickly and smoothly downhill.

Sounds like East TN or North GA. That's where Buells shine. We're the fastest to 75mph, but back of the pack after that.

10-17-2008, 09:12 PM	#13
Dnyce flyin high Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: cali Moto: 10speed huffy w/cards in the spokes Posts: 2,318	one thing some1 mentioned awhile back was not to weight the bars, have a loose upper body, etc when riding. that shit is a ridiculous ab workout to maintain that while on the brakes. __________________ "Racing Is Life, Everything Before and After is Just Waiting" Steve McQueen

10-18-2008, 10:17 AM	#14
jeeps84 No longer MIA Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Western NC (The Great Smoky Mountains) Moto: 1987 GSXR 50, 1996 Ducati M900, 07 GSXR 750, 07 Harley Davidson Night Train Posts: 984	I use both front and rear on or off track. I usually cover the front softly settling the front suspension while trailing the rear till I make the transition to pull the trigger on the exit. __________________ Lets ride!

10-17-2008, 08:59 PM	#12
No Worries Keyboard Racer Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mile High City Moto: Old Superbikes Posts: 1,016	I'm not a believer of using only the front brake, or of braking real hard for a corner. To me, coming out of the corner is the most important and the most fun. Here's what Lee Parks in Total Control says: "anything that abruptly interferes with the suspension can cause a significant loss of traction. For this reason, it is important to apply the brakes simultaneously and as smoothly as possible." Here's what Parks says about braking and suspension movement: "When using the brakes, be sure not to apply them too quickly. When this happens, the rear wheel is prone to skidding, and the front end will dive rapidly, causing major instability. A good measure of proper application is minimal suspension movement." For me to take my old bikes quickly down a steep, twisty road like Lookout Mountain, I have to use both brakes. If I just use the front brake, the assistance of gravity and nose dive might be too much for my front tire. I also have to use the front and rear smoothly to keep the front end from bouncing up and down as I brake for the corner, lean, and accelerate to the next corner.

10-18-2008, 04:41 PM	#15
Amber Lamps Moto GP Star Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14,556	Congratulations! This is definitely a Tigger worthy thread! Hahahahaha. Personally,I've totally lost it since my last deer encounter. I am however getting a handle on it again. One of my problems has been getting used to my bike again. I think that you are right about your braking issues and I think that you are on the right track to a cure. Good luck!

10-18-2008, 09:47 PM	#17
FT BSTRD Tractor Driver Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Franklin, TN Moto: Buell XB12X Ulysses Posts: 1,007	I think it also depends on the bike. Because my bike is high on torque but low on top end HP, I try to maintain as much entry speed as possible track or street. I know I will have grunt coming out of the corner. If there's a long straight after the corner, I ain't outrunning jack squat. My braking tends to be as much about chassis settling as speed reduction. Many times I will use the rear to scrub speed and trail brake as well as settle the chassis a little. I've got really long suspenders up front, so hard braking tends to yield significant dive and chassis movement. Therefore, I work to scrub off the minimum amount of speed for the curve and trail brake with the rear to settle the chassis. I think everyone's style is a little different. My style is dictated, to a certain degree by the bike.