Gas sucks

[Dnyce]

Originally Posted by OTB

Soylent Green:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

sonuva bitch-i thought i was halfway original with that idea. fuckin old conspiracy theory hippies makin movies lol

its really funny that shit is set in 2022-and its based on a book thats set in 1999.

i wana see that movie now

[upshift]

Originally Posted by OTB

My Sprinter has a 25 gallon tank; Diesel is 4.62/ gallon here. .....smidge over $100 to fill up....

Now, I do get around 30mpg......but still......

You do have to process the oil, (free up some hydrogen by removing the glycol molecules; you need a processor and some chemicals, including ethanol) so it isn't "free", but at the price of diesel, it is getting advantagous to do so. Also, switching from diesel to biodiesel can cause some problems with coking, plugging filters, ect, so blends of biodiesel and diesel are recommended.

I remember seeing some guy on TV a long time ago that converted his car into a biodiesel car. I think he said it cost him under a dollar to make it and he had huge tanks of it brewing in his garage. So yeah its not technically free but I think he said at the rate he made it he was in the 20cent/gallon range or some where around that. Another thing I think would be awesome to do is what the Mythbusters did. They took some cow manure and made a digester and used the methane given off to power a lawnmower and it actually worked. If we could somehow harness that we could use that for literally pennies per gallon.

Also I remember talking to a guy that said he heard that the only reason gas prices are like they are is because gas companies are fighting over the top rung on the industry ladder. Money is their only concern and they know we will pay $4+ per gallon because we need to. Dam oil compaines and their rich asses.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by upshift

Also I remember talking to a guy that said he heard that the only reason gas prices are like they are is because gas companies are fighting over the top rung on the industry ladder. Money is their only concern and they know we will pay $4+ per gallon because we need to. Dam oil compaines and their rich asses.

Sometimes, you should not believe everything you hear.

The reasons that prices are as high as they are as follows:

Opec has curtailed production with the direct result of high prices per barrel.

The US Govt has restricted opening new fields (like Anwar and the Gulf Of Mexico), restricting domestic supply.

The demand for oil has increased fourfold in the last ten years for "developing" countries like China, India and the far east.

The lack of new refining production due to EPA restrictions.



I own a number of shares of several major oil companies, as well as some shares of oil wells. My dividends have not gone up. As a matter of fact, as a percentage of gross, they have actually decreased. If an average business got a lousy BT ROE of 8% like the major oil companies, they would get out of the business and go do something else.

WHO ARE THE OIL COMPANIES?

If you have a retirement program, belong to a union pension fund, own ANY mutual fund, well, then YOU are the oil company. That is who owns the majority of oil stock in this country.

Guess that make YOU and me the greedy bastages ,eh?

Originally Posted by upshift

.

Money is their only concern and they know we will pay $4+ per gallon because we need to. Dam oil compaines and their rich asses.

Fact of the matter is, demand for gas is not inelastic (remember Intro to Economics?) fuel demand and consumption in the US is DROPPING, in direct response to higher prices.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domes...49549820080226

Dropping demand means lower sales, lower sales means LOWER profit.....

[upshift]

Yeah I hear alot of stuff where I work I had no idea if it was true but I was just going based on what I've heard through the grape vine. Guess its not really all cutthroat like I've heard. Nonetheless we still need to find a better/cheaper alternative than petroleum.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by upshift

Yeah I hear alot of stuff where I work I had no idea if it was true but I was just going based on what I've heard through the grape vine. Guess its not really all cutthroat like I've heard. Nonetheless we still need to find a better/cheaper alternative than petroleum.

Opinions are like buttholes....everybody has one and most of them stink...

In the case of these things, like pricing, energy, economics and ecology; you need to look at the basis for what is it you are really talking about. WHO OWNS WHAT? WHO benefits from a given policy? In the case of publicly held companies, it is the SHAREHOLDERS who benefit (Them being you and me) .

In the case of a catastrophe like Enron, the shareholders(a lot of which were employees) got buffaloed by dishonest management (whom the shareholders hired, then didn't watch over) and everybody lost.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

how high do gas prices have to get before we actually see any change? at 4/gallon people still only seem miffed. Problem with prices rising slowly is that by the time we get used to the high price, they just raise it a little bit more. Its like we've been taking one step forward and two steps back for the last 5 years.

[OTB]

Originally Posted by NONE_too_SOFT

how high do gas prices have to get before we actually see any change? .

What kind of change? We've already seen a drop in demand.

If you are talking about how and how much Americans drive, you are looking at major cultural, geographic and infrastructure issues. In Europe, where gas is traditionally nearly double what we pay here (the difference is taxes; the cost of production in Europe is the same as here) you have always seen smaller, highly fuel efficient, space efficient cars with the emphasis on public transportation and an efficient inter-city rail system. Many of the countries in Europe are smaller than most US states and some states (like Alaska and Texas) are as large as all of Europe. Tell me you want to drive from Akron to
Miami in THIS $13,000 POS with two of your buddies:



or, you could always take AMTRAK..................NOT!

Like I said, we have geographical issues that the Europeans do not, we have a history of driving what we drive, and we have infrastructure in most cities and almost all intra-city situations, (with the exception of the Boston-Washington corridor) that supports individual transportation, rather that mass transit....... But we voted for it. Highway funding has always outstripped mass-transit. We've always wanted it that way. Now it's going to take years to get caught up.

You don't take a behemouth like the US and do an about-face overnight. We're talking DECADES of change.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

Im talking about more of a change in mentality. Yes we drive less because of the high prices, but isnt that kind of like putting a bandaide on a gunshot wound?

All the public really does about the high prices is bitch and moan. I was speaking more along the lines of when is it going to cost SO much that our political views change? when are we going to start rationalizing drilling in our well known oil reserves in various regions of our country.

I dont plan on driving any sort of hybrid any time soon, nor do i plan on driving an uncomfortable 2 seater like you showed, so you're dead on in that respect. but i do drive a smaller car with above average gas milage, and when i can i ride my bike, which has slightly better gas mileage (when im not riding agressively)

Yes people are opting to drive less. No cross country road trips, no sunday drives, no taking two cars to the family reunion, etc etc. But the majority of our driving is not leisure, i would think. The daily commute from suburbia and rural areas to our metropolitan areas, the trips to the grocery store, taking the kids to soccer practice, etc etc are things that most people dont consider themselves able to give up. These people are typically those with a greater disposable income, and simply do not NEED to cease thier driving paterns.

Unfortunatly in my area there is only the mentality that theres one choice, drive or dont drive. The public transportation on my area is used only by the lowest income bracket, there is no car-pool incentive, and the mentality that every family needs to own an SUV or a Minivan is as prevalant as always.

[OTB]

Now you enter the political arena, and to answer your question, "Likely not soon."

We have three presidential candidates; none of them are talking about opening up new reserves, drilling in Anwar (or anywhere else). We have all three of these goofs who all subscribe to the "global carbon credits" fraud (the bloody "Kyoto Protocols"), which is gauranteed to drive prices in to the $6-8.00 range in the SHORT term, let alone the damage it will do to the remaining manufacturing and energy production in this country.

We (the voting public) seem bent on economic suicide.

And we have a supposedly conservative lame duck president who, by putting the bloody polar bear on the Endangered Species list, has virtually guaranteed Anwar will not be developed anytime in the near future.

I think things are going to get much worse.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

The politics surrounding this subject are frightfully scarce. The most face time any idea concerning gas prices has gotten was the silly "gas tax holiday".

you are right though, its only a matter of time before not only our gas prices rise, but our entire economy will begin to falter. after all pretty much all of our industry is run on fuel we need to buy from other countries, because we are so bent on hoarding our resources for the benefit of our bleeding hearts.

More and more of our money will be used to produce overseas, and our money will continue to depreciate.

Viva le revolution.