Health Care..what do you think?

[cbrchick]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

idk... I'm deployed with a guy who's wife is canadian... they both hate the canadian healthcare system. Too slow and indecisive. She has been waiting 2 years to get her gall bladder removed.

Funny....

Where does she live? We are a "have not province" compared to others in Canada and gall bladder surgery is a breeze. If it really needs to come out, they take it out. Infected stones, blocked ducts...depends on the degree of the gall bladder issue. Simply having periodic pain isn't a pre-req for surgery.

Having lived in Texas (like Sherri) and now work in the Canadian Health Care System... I gotta say, it ain't bad. Sure I pay higher taxes, but I'd rather more people receive tx than go by the wayside. And if anyone thinks our Drs/Medical facilities are sub-par b/c we are socialized, your mistaken.

Shit loads money go towards research here just as in the US.

My father had 2 surgeries for cancer at MD Anderson in Houston. 1987, 1994.
Chemo, radiation...wicked hospital, awesome oncologists. The bills my parents paid with great health coverage (80%) tens of thousands of dollars.

After all that top notch care, his Cancer came back in a different place. Even with all that money and resources, it came back. And that's no one's fault. We now know that chemo isn't useful for his type of Cancer.

When he discovered a small lump a few years ago, he saw an oncologist right away, had surgery 1.5 weeks later. And having worked with his oncologist surgeon, I can tell you he got expert care with ZERO cost. He doesn't get charged for each blood draw, every supply used, or any pain medication he may have received (which was none b/c he's a tough ass).

When I had my little girl, I paid NADA. I shared a room with another girl after wards b/c there were no privates left. Did I care? No...I work in a hospital, I don't want to spend anytime "relaxing" in one if I don't have to. I left 24 hours later. Being a nurse, I know I got all the important things I needed as well as my child. I could care less about the bells and whistles.

Anyway, there's def. somethings about our system that needs some tweek'n. It is frustrating having to wait for somethings. There's never enough room. Things are never done fast enough. And the food always sucks. But I know we do a lot of good for a lot of people that would die otherwise.

I'd gladly pay higher taxes so that any of you could receive health care. But that's just the way we think in a social place

[G-Rex]

I'm lucky that I have excellent health care through my company that is paid for entirely and covers at 100%

I don't mind my taxes going towards healthcare for those who can't afford it or don't get it. The problem is efficiency. There's no such thing here I don't think.

For those who haven't read the fine print of the proposed health care program, it's ugly. It covers far more than health care. It's about making government bigger and more inclusive in our day to day lives. That is what I have a problem with.

And for anybody who things the government can do a good job running a universal health care system here, I have one thing to say about that. Medicare. Ask anybody on *that* system how well it works. That's small in comparison to what this universal system would be, and the government can't even run that efficiently.

[Fleck750]

I think Americans as a whole would be in favor universal healthcare. The gov't already takes 1/3 of my income for mostly bullshit.

What I think bothers us the most is our gov'ts ability to fuck up most things it gets its hands on. Most of our social programs were started for the right reasons, but time, greed and bad management has turned those into a joke.

People that need things don't get them, but those willing to scream the loudest and sit on their asses do.

Professionals, i.e. doctors, nurses and all those in the health field like to get paid. Gov't is notorious for not doing that. Plus, they spent many years to get a degree and feel it's their right to make as much money as possible. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt that most doctors want to help people, most are in it for the money.

[Tmall]

Our drs make a lot of money...

[cbrchick]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Our drs make a lot of money...

And they work a lot, a lot of hours and do it b/c they give a shit. Not everyone's in it for the money. It's not something I'd want to do. They have zero time with their families. Some here graduate with more than 500 grand in debt. It's a lot after 8 years of school, then specializing. I don't think some of them get paid enough for the time, compassion, volunteering, love, continuing education, commitment... I'm sure some people are in it for the money, but it's a lot of responsibility and sacrifice for a monetary gain that could be acquired with far less time and consequences in a different field.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I would really love to hear the Canadian and American opinions on universal health care. Americans maybe you can enlighten me as to why the country seems so opposed and Canadians maybe you can shed some light on how it works here.

I personally love our system, I've lived in both and a good portion of why I came back to Canada was because of our health care system. I had gall bladder surgery, and then went back in a few days later with a raging infection. How much did the operation cost me? $0. How much did a week in the hospital on morphine, percoset and antibiotics cost $0. I just got to focus on getting better and not " how the hell am I going to pay for this ( even just a co-pay can be insane) I do pay more in taxes up here, but seriously the additional taxes is less than what I paid monthly for shitty insurance in the states. Plus prescriptions here are MUCH cheaper than in the U. S.
And in the states the people are already paying for the healthcare of people on welfare, gives no incentive to get off and get a job if you are going to lose your healthcare, dental and vision benefits. I saw it a million times where I worked.

Having worked in and lived with both systems I chose the US system. I was 4 years in Ontario.(late 80s Early 90s) While I was thrilled with the idea of the Canadian system my experience taught me that while Canadian system has excellent initial care that more complex issues are hindered by the system itself and that this is why Canadians per capita remain the number one consumers of medical tourism. The other issue is one of Culture, Canadian Culture is very different ( a fact that is often hidden on both sides of the border because of a common language) Canada has a centralized system Canadians think nothing of paying upward of 45 percent or more of there income in taxes (this is before you get to things like local taxes) Canada has a National Sales Tax , most Provinces have a "Sales Tax" ( you mention prescriptions in your post they are cheaper because like most things under a centralised system the prices are regulated and subsidised) In the past this has been described by a Canadian I respect as culture of "Raising the Floor" as someone who was raised in the US I experience it as "Lowering the Ceiling" A culture that guarantees basics but limits service and opportunity. Again I am not slamming the Canadian system I respect it, but I would rather not live under it again.

I live in a state that has no sales or income tax and combined with all local fees pay less than 30 percent in federal state and local taxes. I pay for my own heath care insurance balancing my needs and risks against cost and benefit ( My insurance is in my opinion far better than I had under OHIP and when you examine the tax differences much much cheaper oh and I pay $10 for a prescription). I fear that our current president and those marching mindless in lock step are going to do to our system and if they mess it up to much I may ask the cousins in Quebec to keep an eye out for a peice of retirement property for me, but right now as someone who has experienced both systems I will take the US without question,

[Cutty72]

idk, she's getting the surgery in 2 weeks

her hubby said she's had issued with it for about 2 years and was on some "list"

She lives in Winnipeg

[sherri_chickie]

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

[Flexin]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

idk... I'm deployed with a guy who's wife is canadian... they both hate the canadian healthcare system. Too slow and indecisive. She has been waiting 2 years to get her gall bladder removed.

I have a friend who's father went into the doctor, they found a problem and he was in the getting surgery a day or two later. For somethings there is a wait if your going to a specialist but that could happen anywhere.

James

[goof2]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

It sounds like your friend has shitty insurance. I had friends whose child was born with esophageal atresia. He was in surgery withing a couple hours of birth and was in the NICU for a while afterwords. They were out of pocket for right around $500 for everything.

ETA: This discussion is kind of pointless anyway. People's attitudes come down to personal experiences in each system, which is not representative of how each system functions as a whole. If you are to believe the media and the governments people die in this country due to lack of coverage/money/quality care. People die in other countries due to lack of resources/personel/quality care. For the most part each person's opinion is valid. The only opinion on the subject I really feel is rediculous is the idea that what is coming will 1) cost less, 2) cover more people, 3) keep the same quality of care, and 4) have none of the problems of other systems. You can't get something for nothing. Dreaming of a future medical system where that is the case is unrealistic.