Health Care..what do you think?

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Prior to the credit melt-down, health care costs were your nation's primary cause of insolvency. That points to a pretty large problem. Our problem is excessive wait times for non-critical operations.

That many bankruptcies have been caused by healthcare doesn't mean healthcare causes a lot of bankruptcies. There is a flaw in your logic.

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

You may well be right. Even I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing and digest it, and I used to read religious and mythological works for fun.

Nor do I. Even if I did have the patience to do it the future of the bill will have already been decided by the time I was done. The fact that two components I personally feel would accomplish more than any direct government involvement are being left out leads me to my conclusion.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by azoomm

Goof - sorry I didn't do a direct quote over what I paraphrased... sorry if I should believe a forum instead.

I wasn't calling in to question what you posted. I was calling in to question the government's track record for 1) estimating the cost of social programs (or defense procurement, public works projects, etc.), 2) estimating the savings to be generated by reform (being relied on from both Medicare and the regular system). Estimates are just that and the government hasn't given me much reason to trust theirs.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by goof2

I wasn't calling in to question what you posted. I was calling in to question the government's track record for 1) estimating the cost of social programs (or defense procurement, public works projects, etc.), 2) estimating the savings to be generated by reform (being relied on from both Medicare and the regular system). Estimates are just that and the government hasn't given me much reason to trust theirs.

Roger that. That's why "savings" have me all hinky about it and the thought that the "savings" will pay for a new program. It's also hinky saying that people with "inadequate" insurance plans will have to pay x% in taxes... they have yet to define adequate and inadequate.

*sigh*

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

I think people with high risk homosexual lifestyles, should have to pay more for health care than I do. I don't ask for blood tests for no apparent reason....

When you eat 350 grams of protein a day with other volumizing supplements, you neeed to monitor peridoic liver and kidney function. The typical eat when you are hungry a buck 120 soakin wet guy isn't going to request blood work. In fact the only time he would care is if there is a problem, though usually then the damage is already done.

...50% of Americans think you're an idiot....

Someone else posted the 50% number, I went with it. Suck it up.

...Half the population is under 20, over 65, or unemployed. I doubt they all have the same views on health care. I also doubt many of them are "illegal Mexicans". Why would anyone pretend to be a Mexican? It makes no sense.

The reason it makes no sense, is that there are roughly 20 million illegal aliens in the US. There are 308 million people in the US (more or less). Do the math. With or without illegal aliens, our system still needs improvement.....

I'll make this simple for you because you like to tout numbers which to me is not relevant here. Americans understand that the healthcare system needs improvement, but they also understand that whatever the government does will end up taking more taxpaper money for a solution that usually doesn't work well. The people who want free or subsidized healthcare are going to vote for the congressman who votes for a bill which gives them free/subsidized healthcare. Pretty simply concept. There are more poor people in the U.S. then rich. If you simply get these people to vote (ACORN assisted), then you can guarantee they will vote for the one (usually the liberal) who gives them the most free shit regardless of things like national debt or shifting the burden to the rich.

[sherri_chickie]

My dollar quotes are based on either what I paid myself in the states or what my best friend is currently paying. As teachers you would think we had decent medical but it sounds like we really had the shifty end of the stick. My former sister in law has a $10000deductable every year ... Ouch!

[cbrchick]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

When you eat 350 grams of protein a day with other volumizing supplements, you neeed to monitor peridoic liver and kidney function. The typical eat when you are hungry a buck 120 soakin wet guy isn't going to request blood work. In fact the only time he would care is if there is a problem, though usually then the damage is already done.

Funny...if you were honest with your doctor about your lifestyle, you wouldn't have to request your own blood work to check for hepatic/renal failure.

Sounds like a great standard of care if your more concerned about ARF than your quack.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

You may well be right. Even I don't have the patience to read through the whole thing and digest it, and I used to read religious and mythological works for fun.

Which is the biggest reason to vote No on it. I bet only a handful of our "leaders" know everything that's in it.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by cbrchick

What is your definition of "standardized" care? If you mean everyone gets treated for their cancer, life threatening, chronic or acute disease irrespective of income, then yes, you are right.

I work in an emergency department - I see everything. So I find it funny you think you are an expert on what medical care and the standard of that care that people in this country receive. .....

Standardized Care = The same care across the board regardless of income. I never said it was substandard care, but when you have to pay for the care of your entire population, you inevitably will have to ration or wait longer for a particular procedure.

The issue I have with nationalized health care is that it assumes all people have equal societal worth and should be treated as such. That is simply not the case.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by goof2

That many bankruptcies have been caused by healthcare doesn't mean healthcare causes a lot of bankruptcies. There is a flaw in your logic.

That's a rather neat turn of phrase, that's a complete non sequitur.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by cbrchick

Funny...if you were honest with your doctor about your lifestyle, you wouldn't have to request your own blood work to check for hepatic/renal failure.

Sounds like a great standard of care if your more concerned about ARF than your quack.

Yes my doctor does know what I eat and yes he DID recommend blood work 2x a year. In fact this last time he had to remind me and I just had it done. Called me 2 days later with the results. Looks like I have to cut out the 12 eggs a day for a while..

I started to up my protein to 450grams/day, but my liver/kidneys didn't like it. I then tried 400 and while a better result, was still not good. My system is happy on 350 grams or less granted I'm drinking 1 gallon of water per day. I used the tests more as a measurement of what my body limits are. Take it FWIW...