When to slow down

[wildchild]

actually I think alot of the engineering differences stems from the asians being a more frugal/necessity country versus americans being of the more is better idealogy. It makes for very different design ideas.

[Porkchop]

Originally Posted by eBBs15

no... I think what killed Detroit long ago but they've been too stubborn to let go is the Unions. people getting paid $40/hr for a job that should EARN no more than $20/hr.

They drove the prices up... and because their work ethic sucked why pay attention to quality of work. the result is the Domestic market's reputation for sub par vehicles that last (with a few exceptions) about half as long as the Imported counterparts.

Shit.... $40??? Honda workers make $40 an hour. American brand workers make damn near $60 an hour.......

[Rider]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

Interesting... you never said this to me in person before...




.

I didn't say all, I'm saying most. You don't fit the typical HD rider profile. I have respect for a few HD riders, but that is such a small percentage of the total number of riders out there. Am I pointing out the stereotypes? Absolutely.

If I was allowed a camera at work, I'd take a pic of the HD riders compared to the SS riders. All the HD riders here are old and fat and wear novelty brain buckets as a helmet. You can spot them very easily.... It IS an image thing. There is even one guy here that smokes a pipe while he rides...

[Gas Man]

Originally Posted by Rsv1000R

Gas, There maybe some miss management (I hate what GM's bean counters do to their product), But how do you manage expenses when you have to much capacity and you can't reduce it because the Unions won't let them?
And how do you fault a company for building product that's selling well in those plants, even if you know you're more susceptible to say an unexpected spike in gas prices.

I know, the whole damn thing is a house of cards

Originally Posted by Rider

I didn't say all, I'm saying most. You don't fit the typical HD rider profile. I have respect for a few HD riders, but that is such a small percentage of the total number of riders out there. Am I pointing out the stereotypes? Absolutely.

If I was allowed a camera at work, I'd take a pic of the HD riders compared to the SS riders. All the HD riders here are old and fat and wear novelty brain buckets as a helmet. You can spot them very easily.... It IS an image thing. There is even one guy here that smokes a pipe while he rides...

Just givin ya shit. You left it open

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

I can agree with you on the unions. I have many union buds that work at the big 3 and their suppliers. But understand this... its not the workers or even the unions that have drove these car companies into the ground. Its the miss management by corperate.

And very much so on the vast improvement. My 04 F150 was HUGE HUGE better than my previous ones. But the 09 are even more huge of improvements. It is crazy how much better the american cars are now. I could not believe how quiet the 09 Malibu is inside. I'm talking what I percieve as lincoln/cadillac quiet. I do disagree on the power curve. When the malibu as an example is getting 169hp from a inline 4, I would say american cars are on par EASY!

Finally (at least for this post), Trip... the BDM while uglier than hell will probably be a fine piece of german. I can't wait to see it. Hopefully you'll have it by July!

by power curve I hope you know I wasn't talking about HP... just talking about the power curve of reliablility. I don't think toyota or honda ever put out a motor with jaw dropping power... they've always been more longevity based motors. ones that are broken in at 100k... and not broken down.

I will say that American Cars are getting there... making 100k isn't an automatic sale and a 50% knock off the blue book price anymore... but it's 2009.... Toyota and Honda have had motors that did that for 30 years.

I'm amazed the amount of HP the domestic market is putting in some of these cars... 400hp? damn.... and they look great too... but fuck me if I'm gonna spend my money on a truck or car that's 5 years later I've lost 10 grand off the price. shit look up a 04 Tacoma 4x4 extra-cab. still HIGH teens in many markets... and that is an older body style.

Shit my brother ordered an 06 Tundra Limited... paid 32k for it... bought a house and couldn't afford both... was able to sell it a year later with 20k on the ticker for 32k... he literally had it for sale for 3hrs. Granted Tundra's aren't the best full size pickup (especially his year) for work... but it's got the Toyota name and rep....


but ehh... enough about that....

I want the fuck'n 800GS... my damn Xterra needs to sell QUICK!

[derf]

Trip, I can honestly say I understand what youre talking about, I have way more fun tooling around on stoopid random bikes than I do on my own (especially the cheap ones that I'm not afraid to wreck) like a 250 rebel, kz440, or Daryls 50. Hell if I could have ridden that 50 all day I would have.

[The Awesome]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

Do you have any idea how much time HD now puts into R&D? Its insane... take a hd factory tour. Then feel free to try the same with your rice...

Are you suggesting we compare the R&D of Harley, who haven't been innovative in any way since long before I was born, to the Japanese companies who live on the bleeding edge of motorcycle development?

When does that Harley GP bike come out again?

EDIT:

Oh, and Trip...

Quit being a little girl and get on the gas.

[shmike]

Harley Researches their target demographic and Designs new t-shirts and bandanas.

[Frostz28]

well Im man enough to admit that this thread has been taken over by people far more intelligent and more experienced that me. I know better than to try to argue with Gas, because he has forgotten more shit than Ill ever know!!! I take his word to be the gospel truth. I just haven't had the chance to swing a leg over to many of the higher priced HDs. Ive had a leg over several but most were pretty well modded and that could have contributed to their poor ride quality. I just could never see why a HD went for nearly twice what say a vulcan would go for. Perhaps theres something to it that I don't know.

As far as american engineering vs. others I still think we have some of the best engineering on the planet. ya we have our flaws but If I have the choice Ill buy american if at all possible. To bad it seems no american company is really interested in jumping into the sport bike market aside from a few buells. Ive only ever driven american cars and trucks, ive taken 5 vehicles over 150k with NO major issues, and one truck over 310,000 miles!!! she was a beast. Still runnin when I got rid of her but the body had completely rusted off her. My current truck is bout to turn over 160k and still runnin strong. my buddy has always driven hondas and while they do run just as long he seems to constantly be getting something little fixed.

I do know a little about unions, long story short they SUCK!!! Im not holding them single handedly responsible for the fall of detroit, they were a big part of it. The vast majority of unions protect lazy workers and drive the cost of production WAY up!

[Gas Man]

Hey I am no mechanic but I will tell you this... you see a great deal more when you start taking parts off at 3 feet in the air on the lift.

And ebbs... I'll put my 280k 1991 Pontiac 6000 LE up to that idea that american cars aren't realiable. Never did anything to the motor or trans besides new fluids.