Teaching newbies to ride.

[Amorok]

[QUOTE=Trip;365934]MSF is not a tiered system. It's one class/one tier. The tiered system in Europe allows you to advance through the levels of bikes and progress.

There is no progression plan in the MSF. It's here's some basic shit, now go out into the world.[QUOTE]There is progression, the same as the classes you described in Europe. The BRC teaches basic motorcycle skills such as clutch control, braking, etc. The ERC teaches more advanced skills such as anticipating curves, moving atg a higher rate of speed. And the parking lot speeds? In the ERC they're moving at much slower tht road speeds but they get up to 25 in some excercies. Coincidentally, this is the speed limit for most of the base.

[QUOTE=Trip;365934]The euro training courses I am referring to, does go through the noob basics and you progress to actual street riding and further beyond that. It's a true progression of skill to the point where you are qualified to ride on the road safely without needing further training where as the average rider is not ready for the street right out of MSF.[QUOTE]I agree that more training is needed, you're not ready to race out of an MSF course. That's why I give my students information on riding groups and encourage them to come ride with us.

Originally Posted by Trip

Another reason for my dislike is the level of skill of the teachers that I experienced. I don't know the skill of racer x, but I am sure it is high level. That's not the case in my class. The ridercoaches I came in contact with, weren't high level riders. Yey, they can read from a book and give basic commands. Congrats, you deserve to teach people something you can barely do yourself... Sorry, if someone I care about is going to learn to ride, I want a teacher who actually has a sufficient amount of skill in the subject.

Knowing what I know now about the area and what the ridercoaches told us in class, it makes me laugh. They were the ones that actually believe and relayed the misinformation/rumors about deals gap and they did that in class.

I can't speak for that, I don't know your instructors. I do know that I have to be able to perform the exercises I put the students through with a high level of accuracy, and I do my best. I try not to relay misinformation, but nobody's perfect man, not even those vaunted European instructors. Like I said, at the rally this year I'm going to try to put together part of one of the exercises we do, we'll see how it works out.

To answer some others, you can ride your own bike in our BRC/ERC. I encourage it actually, since you should familiarize yourself with what you're riding.

You can score 20 points or below in the course, but it isn't one point for everything. In the quick stop you get one point per foot over the standard for your time. In the swerve you'll get ten points assessed if you hit the obstacle, five for braking during the swerve. So the points are assessed differently depending on the severity of the consequences of what you did. The worse the consequences of that mistake in the real world, the higher the points assessed in the simulation.You can ride the first three test exercises fine, but three mistakes in the cornering exercise will fail you. Which makes sense, since a high percentage of motorcycle accidents involving serious injuries are during turns. Likewise, there are at least five exercises where turning is practices and three or so for swerving (don't have my cards with me) but only two for quick stops.

I don't teach the sport bike course yet, but when they start putting people through the cert course here I have a slot reserved, which means I'm in the market for a sport bike (don't tell Ulu!) There is an MSF street riding course that goes beyond the ERC, there's also a cruiser specific school as well as a dirt bike school. So I can put you through a BRC, an ERC, a sport bike or cruiser course, and a street riding course. How much more tiered do you want?

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Amorok

So I can put you through a BRC, an ERC, a sport bike or cruiser course, and a street riding course. How much more tiered do you want?

The ERC is a refresher of the BRC. I can't imagine how fucked up the sportbike class is going to be if MSF is doing it. We already have those and they are quite good in track day and racing schools. MSF needs to stay away from that shit, that's for damn sure.

Do they take you to the bar in the cruiser course....pfft.

It's not tiered. It's not even close to tiered, I don't think you even understand what a tiered system is, I suggest you research it.

I got a question, were you an instructor when you came to the rally last year?

[Rangerscott]

Can you bring your own bike to the regular msf?

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Rangerscott

Can you bring your own bike to the regular msf?

BRC - no, you can't ride it in the class
ERC - yes

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

BRC - no, you can't ride it in the class
ERC - yes

you can bring your own bike to BRC in TX but we don't recommend it.

and of course have to sign waivers and pass a quick tech inspection and be road legal w/ ins.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

you can bring your own bike to BRC in TX but we don't recommend it.

and of course have to sign waivers and pass a quick tech inspection and be road legal w/ ins.

That's a nice improvement. I didn't have a bike yet when I took it, but that would of been a nice option.

[Tsunami]

Avatard, can she ride a regular bicycle?

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by Tsunami

Avatard, can she ride a regular bicycle?

Yes, but not in a manner that inspires me to ride closely alongside

[Tsunami]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Yes, but not in a manner that inspires me to ride closely alongside

I think she should work on one skill at a time on separate days and have her stop for the day when she has done well and feeling good about it. That way she doesn't go home and stew about doing something wrong and get discouraged.

How are you teaching her about clutch control? Have her clutch out until she feels the bike move and clutch in again and like Amorok said, have her control it and walk with the bike. When she gets comfortable teach her how to use the brakes. Maybe front brake first before the rear (so she doesn't get confused and then both). Let her clutch out in first, ride straight away from stuff she can crash into and then clutch in and brake.

I wouldn't even teach her how to shift until she can get that done.

How does she feel about you teaching her to ride? Do you make her more nervous because she feels like she has to meet or exceed your expectations?

I know I learn better from people I am not related to. But mostly because they can't teach and they end up making me want to punch them. My mom tried teaching me how to drive once but gave no instructions other than turn the wheel. After we both wanted to kill each other after 5 minutes she sent me to driving school and I learned really quickly.

After MSF, my friend took me to the parking lot a couple of times and then on quiet neighborhoods. Then I moved back to NY and met my husband who tried to cram 15 years of riding experience at me at one time. I remember one of the first times we went out together he tried to teach me about lane positioning, at the stop sign, yelling through his helmet and when all I could think about was stopping and not tipping over. Talk about nerve wracking. It got to the point that I had to ride with other people (with him not around or in front where he couldn't see what I was doing) that I got more comfortable and I didn't get comfortable until we stopped riding together and I would go out alone.

[Rangerscott]

My ER-6N would make a great teaching bike. It's like you're sitting on a stool and the power delivery isn't, "my head is 6ft behind me."