High Fructose Corn Syrup Causes More Weight Gain Than Sugar

[AquaPython]

ok - i will not address the instant death argument, you are too much dude.

however,
i can and have provided information on here, or sources for it.

there are tons of articles on this stuff, here is good one for starters.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

i am looking for the fat / protein thing is writing, but as i said, i paraphrased it from memory. it was from the documentary i posted "King Corn".

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by AquaPython

ok - i will not address the instant death argument, you are too much dude.

however,
i can and have provided information on here, or sources for it.

there are tons of articles on this stuff, here is good one for starters.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

i am looking for the fat / protein thing is writing, but as i said, i paraphrased it from memory. it was from the documentary i posted "King Corn".

There is nothign there citing that beef has less protein when fed corn then when fed grass, nothing at all.

It talks about fats, and like I said above, yes, at live weight, a cow has much m. higher body fat percentage than a grass fed one will. Nobody is arguing that fact.

But, when you skin that beef, the vast majority of it it trimmed off, or attached to cuts you shouldnt be eating much of anyway. The ribs and back being the biggest culprit. When you look at these cuts, you see that there is inch thick veins of fat throughtout them. Grassfed beef will show quite a bit less of this fat, we agree on that. But our arguement is about lean meat. And lean meat will always have 36 grams of protein per 100 grams, and very negligible amounts of fat. You get much more of this lean meat off a bigger cow, making it more profitable and much faster to raise.

There is no too much about it. If a species lost 70% of its protein over 80 years, it would not survive, its that simple.

[AquaPython]

well the lean meat part is your argument. i just said beef originally. i am not arguing that different cuts of beef are leaner than others, i think it is common sense.

but you did say that

it doesnt vary, its DNA makeup. A cow from a line of grain fed animals in a mountain somewhere, will have the same numerical breakdown that one in a barn forcefed corn has, cut for cut. The percentages will be the same. Unless we change their DNA, a lean cut of beef has always had, and will always have, 36 grams of protein per 100 grams of lean beef. Its a constant. Its the way their muscles form.

however, if you look at the page i posted, or this except

Grain fed beef has more Omega-6, compared to the Omega-3 in the same meat. As mentioned earlier, when these two fatty acids is out of nutritional balance in a food that is consumed, it is not healthy for the body. This is a major difference between these two types of beef and tips the scale for health in the direction of grass fed.

Grain fed beef has a lot more saturated fat than grass fed beef. Saturated fat is, of course, a known factor in heart disease development. Reducing saturated fat in the diet is a good thing and grass fed beef can help.

Grain fed beef has less CLA, or Conjugated Linoleic Acid. CLA has been shown to reduce body fat, help with weight loss, increase metabolic rate, help to lower insulin resistance and cholesterol, among other health benefits.

Grass fed beef excels nutritionally in vitamin A, E and Beta Cartotene, over grain fed beef.

Grass fed beef is nutritionally superior to grain fed, for these reasons and more.

Learn more about why grain diets, in cattle and humans, are not healthy here

Some labeling can be deceptive too. In fact, most labeling can be which is why I suggest going to the website of the company, and asking some direct questions. For example, free range doesn't necessarily mean grass fed. It can mean that cattle are kept in small pastures and fed grain. Cage-free is one often used with chicken and it can just mean that the chickens were kept in crowded, tiny pens instead of cages.

from http://www.askahealer.com/grain-fed-beef.htm

there are obviously vast differences in the chemical make up of these animals muscle tissues.

i will try and find some written documentation on fats / proteins, but in the time, i again challenge you guys to come up with ONE iota of contrary data.

[AquaPython]

i believe you about the current stats. what i don't see is evidence supporting your theory that it has always been that way.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by AquaPython

i believe you about the current stats. what i don't see is evidence supporting your theory that it has always been that way.

you dont understand, it doesnt vary, its DNA makeup. A cow from a line of grain fed animals in a mountain somewhere, will have the same numerical breakdown that one in a barn forcefed corn has, cut for cut. The percentages will be the same. Unless we change their DNA, a lean cut of beef has always had, and will always have, 36 grams of protein per 100 grams of lean beef. Its a constant. Its the way their muscles form.

Now if you want to compare overall fat percentages, at live weight, then yes, you will find that the BF% of todays beef is much higher. But that doesnt change the composition of its muscle itself.

[AquaPython]

still think all beef is created equal, and the consumer just has to not choose sweet snacks?

read up. I am still waiting for some contrary info.

Grass-Fed Beef: The Superior Protein

Tagged:

• Doctor's Corner

Protein is a major source of energy in the human diet, accounting for 10-20% of all calories consumed. Adequate dietary protein intake is critical for the maintenance of normal body function. Protein serves many purposes and is needed for the growth, maintenance and repair of all cells in the body. Protein is a building block for muscle, organs and other vital tissues throughout the body. Finally, protein serves to aid metabolism, digestion and the transport of nutrients and oxygen in the bloodstream.
The Dietary Reference Intake for protein set forth by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) is to eat 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight. This works out to about 36 grams of protein per day for every 100 pounds of weight. Therefore, a 200-pound person needs to eat about 72 grams of protein each day.
One of the best sources of protein in the diet is beef. Depending on the cut, a 3-ounce serving of beef contains 20-25 grams of protein. Furthermore, the protein in beef is “complete protein”, which means it contains all of the amino acids needed for the body to make muscle tissue, hormones, red blood cells and other substances. In contrast, incomplete proteins contain some amino acids, but the missing amino acids must be eaten from other food sources in order to form a complete protein. Although beef is a rich source of complete proteins in the diet, it should be consumed in moderation, since eating too much protein from animal sources may increase the amount of cholesterol and triglycerides in the bloodstream.
Not all beef has the same nutritional profile. The cattle used to produce beef have traditionally been fed diets of grain. However, many farms are switching from grain-fed to grass-fed beef because of the numerous proven benefits to human health.
Overall, grass-fed cattle are healthier than grain-fed cattle. The livers of grain-fed cattle have a 30-fold increase in abscesses, 8-fold more blood vessel disorders and a 3-fold greater frequency of liver contamination (Roberts 1982). Many clinical studies have compared the nutritional content of grass-fed to grain-fed beef. Beef from grass-fed cattle has been shown to have better overall quality in terms of color, lipid oxidation and alpha-tocopherol levels than beef from maize-fed cattle (O’Sullivan 2002). This study found that maize-fed beef had the poorest color while grass-fed beef had the best. Lipid oxidation, which has negative impact on beef flavor, color, and nutritional value, was highest in maize-fed beef and lowest in grass-fed beef. Alpha-tocopherol concentrations (the form of whole food vitamin E that is preferentially absorbed in humans) were also highest in grass-fed beef and lowest in maize-fed beef.
The amount and types of fat contained in grass-fed beef are also superior. Concentrations of alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), an essential fatty acid, were greatest in the grass-fed beef and lowest in maize-fed beef. Numerous other studies have confirmed the superior fatty acid profile of grass-fed beef, including higher levels of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), another type of healthy fat, vaccenic acid, a naturally-occurring fatty acid with distinct health benefits, omega 3 fatty acids, an unsaturated fat that reduces coronary heart disease risk and lower levels of total fat, saturated fat and trans fat (Hebeisen 1993, Leheska 2008, Ponnampalam 2006). Grass-fed beef also has twice the amount of beta-carotene as grain-fed beef. When consumed, beta-carotene is converted to vitamin A in the body, where it helps to maintain normal vision, reproductive function and bone health.
Based on these research findings, there are numerous health benefits to be enjoyed from regularly consuming grass-fed beef. The USDA reports that the average American consumes 67 pounds of beef each year (Davis 2005). Because of the lower fat content and therefore fewer calories in grass-fed beef, switching from grain-fed to grass-fed beef can result in 6 pounds of fat loss per year, with no other changes in diet or activity levels.
Consumption of essential fatty acids, especially omega-3 fatty acids lowers blood pressure and reduces the risk for heart disease, cancer, mental disorders and autoimmune diseases. Vitamin E is a potent antioxidant and helps to lower heart disease and cancer risk and has anti-aging properties. High CLA intake lowers cancer risk due to its strong antioxidant properties and may lower body fat levels, especially in the abdomen. Beta-carotene, another antioxidant, serves to protect against tumor growth and cancer risk. Diets low in saturated and trans-fats can reduce total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol. Lower intake of these fats also reduces the risk for chronic diseases such as heart disease, blood vessel disease, cancer, diabetes and obesity.
Overall, numerous research studies have proven that grass-fed beef is the superior protein because it contains high levels of complete protein and, unlike grain-fed beef, contains antioxidants and healthy fatty acids that serve to protect against chronic disease. The natural phytonutrients rich diet of grass fed beef is definitely not withstanding.


Dr. Linda Kennedy MS SLP ND


References
Christopher G. Davis and Biing-Hwan Lin. Factors Affecting U.S. Beef Consumption. United States Department of Agriculture. 2005, http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications.../ldpm13502.pdf
Hebeisen DF, Hoeflin F, Reusch HP, Junker E, Lauterburg BH. Increased concentrations of omega-3 fatty acids in milk and platelet rich plasma of grass-fed cows. Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1993;63(3):229-33
Leheska JM, Thompson LD, Howe JC, Hentges E, Boyce J, Brooks JC, Shriver B, Hoover L, Miller MF. Effects of conventional and grass-feeding systems on the nutrient composition of beef. J Anim Sci. 2008 Dec;86(12):3575-85. Epub 2008 Jul 18
O'Sullivan A, O'Sullivan K, Galvin K, Moloney AP, Troy DJ, Kerry JP. Grass silage versus maize silage effects on retail packaged beef quality. J Anim Sci. 2002 Jun;80(6):1556-63
Ponnampalam EN, Mann NJ, Sinclair AJ. Effect of feeding systems on omega-3 fatty acids, conjugated linoleic acid and trans fatty acids in Australian beef cuts: potential impact on human health. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2006;15(1):21-9
Roberts JL. The prevalence and economic significance of liver disorders and contamination in grain-fed and grass-fed cattle. Aust Vet J. 1982 Nov;59(5):129-32

[AquaPython]

And the protein part :

Dietary Protein:
Grass fed beef, due to it’s inherent leaner nature, can also be considered a high protein food (Figure 2). In looking at the percent protein consumed as a percent of total energy consumed, it is found grass fed beef averages 76.5% protein by total energy, as compared to typical USDA Choice+ grain fed beef which averages only 48.9% protein by energy. As a further contrast, fatty ground beef offers only 20.3% protein by energy. Many recent human studies clearly show that isocaloric replacement of dietary fat by lean protein has numerous health promoting effects.
Research trials involving human dietary intervention have demonstrated favorable impacts of lean, animal based protein upon blood lipid parameters. Studies showing the isocaloric substitution of protein (23% energy) for carbohydrate in hypercholesterolemic subjects yielded significant decreases in total, LDL and VLDL cholesterol, and triglycerides, while HDL cholesterol increased [90]. Favorable changes in blood lipids have also been observed in normal healthy subjects [91], as well as significant improvements in obese patients [94-100]. In addition, patients with type II diabetes have seen both favorable impacts on blood lipids coupled with improvement in glucose and insulin metabolism [92-93]. Although the mechanism of action for producing favorable blood lipid chemistry is not clear, studies indicate it may be through the inhibition of hepatic VLDL synthesis, perhaps by altering apoprotein synthesis and assembly in the liver [101].
Another positive impact of increased dietary protein intake is the observational lowering of blood pressure [102-104]. A number of randomized controlled trials have shown that increased dietary protein from soy [105-107], mixed dietary sources [100] or from lean red meat [108] can significantly lower blood pressure.
In summarizing studies conducted by Dr. Loren Cordain and others, Dr. Cordain states that “high protein diets have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity and glycemic control (94, 96, 99, 109-111) while promoting greater weight loss (95, 98, 99, 112, 113) and improved long term sustained weight maintenance (114, 115) when compared with low fat, high-carbohydrate calorie restricted diets. The weight loss superiority of higher protein, calorie restricted diets over either calorie restricted (low fat/ high carbohydrate) diets or calorie restricted (high fat/low carbohydrate) appears to be caused by the greater satiety value of protein compared to either fat or carbohydrate (112, 115-118). Of the three macronutrients (protein, fat, carbohydrate), protein causes the greatest release of a gut hormone (PYY) that reduces hunger (118) while simultaneously improving central nervous system sensitivity to leptin (112), another hormone that controls appetite and body weight regulation.”

as taken from this research work:
http://www.thebloomagency.com/stagin...assFedBeef.pdf

see the graph in the PDF

[Apoc]

Aqua, we agree on the profile of fats in grass fed vs corn fed beef, noone is arguing about that.

But the article your showing is looking at overall percentages of the whole beef. If you scroll up and read, I specificly said that ribs/back/certain other cuts DEFINATELY have more fat content than grass fed would, but that the leaner cuts are virtually the same. I think were disagreeing on different things.

I also said that corn fed have a much higher bodyfat percentage than grass fed. Its inevitable. We know that.

But lean cuts still have the same protein as non lean cuts.

What that article is saying, is that there is less of a percentage of protein than there was before. This is true, because the body fat is much higher. So yes, if you look at overall mass of the animal, it carries far less protein overall than grass fed. Its twisting numbers to make a point, but its also not the most effective way to look at the numbers.

But, lean cut for lean cut, they are virtually the same, aside from a couple of extra grams of fat, which goes back to my original port about HCFS and glycemic index. There is nothing wrong with that fat, if your eating correctly and seperating carbs and fat in your meals.

It goes back to one thing, personal choices. Its not the beef your eating that makes you fat. Its the whole structure of what constitutes a meal in North America. HCFS is not making america fat, greed is.

[101lifts2]

I've read what everyone has wrote and have come to a few conclusions: In regards to what Aqua and Apoc are arguing regarding protein content, Apoc is correct in saying that the actual protein is almost the same (minus the fat content) and that there will be more protein in a grass free range animal vs. a caged corn fed one. True..BUT...you have to understand as well that the amino profile in free range grass fed cattle are higher than corn fed. So...there are more complete proteins in grass fed cattle, then corn fed. How much? I don't know without researching it. This does not mean there is more protein, just the profile is different. It is like a gallon of 87 octance vs. a gallon of 89 octane fuel. Same amount, different profile.

The other topic that corn is making us fat depends on how you catergoize people. If you view people as individuals, then no. If you view people as sheep, then yes. I tend to look at people as individuals (even though they are really sheep) and once educated, will learn. If they do not wish to learn, then fuck em. No sympthany from me.

[AquaPython]

We got a little lost in the details.

Apoc we seem to agree on most things as you said. If the article is talking about % of protein to body mass, that makes sense. But that also may only be one study.

My main point was that HFCS is part of a much larger problem with corn, and further, the food industry. I posted the one sentence about fats and proteins and you guys decided to jump on it. That's ok , i feel i backed the statement up with decent supporting evidence, as was asked.
But i just want to point out that even in the articles i posted, and others and myself commented on, there are MANY problems with feedlot beef, beyond the corn, such as the pathogens, and the antibiotics that make it possible, etc etc....