Health Care..what do you think?

[Cutty72]

idk, she's getting the surgery in 2 weeks

her hubby said she's had issued with it for about 2 years and was on some "list"

She lives in Winnipeg

[sherri_chickie]

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

[goof2]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

It sounds like your friend has shitty insurance. I had friends whose child was born with esophageal atresia. He was in surgery withing a couple hours of birth and was in the NICU for a while afterwords. They were out of pocket for right around $500 for everything.

ETA: This discussion is kind of pointless anyway. People's attitudes come down to personal experiences in each system, which is not representative of how each system functions as a whole. If you are to believe the media and the governments people die in this country due to lack of coverage/money/quality care. People die in other countries due to lack of resources/personel/quality care. For the most part each person's opinion is valid. The only opinion on the subject I really feel is rediculous is the idea that what is coming will 1) cost less, 2) cover more people, 3) keep the same quality of care, and 4) have none of the problems of other systems. You can't get something for nothing. Dreaming of a future medical system where that is the case is unrealistic.

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had my gallbladder out in less than 3 months from first diagnosis of a problem. It was quick and we dont need a hmo to decide if the operation is necessary. I likely would have been denied in the states because I did not have any acute attacks and it was elective as such. I felt so much better after the surgery, I hadnt realized just how crappy I felt every evening before the surgery.

How much will it cost me to have this baby if there are no complications? $0, my friend in the states $4000 ( thats just co-pays) If there are complications, still $0.

As far as taxes go, I make pretty decent money pay about 33% to retirement, taxes etc, I pay no sales tax in Alberta either just 5% GST. I take home double what I did in Texas, actually more than that, and make about 30K more a year than I would right now if I had stayed.

I just now had a conversation with a Canadian friend of mine who is now living in Texas about the medical system. He wants to move his family back to Canada because of it. ( well it and education and greedy insurance companies etc)

I respect that and if I were to move back to Canada I would love to go to Alberta or BC. As I said it is a personal Preference and a Very Different Culture and not to be contrary but fist by my standard 33% is a Lot of money and by the time you factor in GST I bet you are paying 40% of your income to the federal Government. Again nothing wrong with that you get a standardized level of service. One of the major cultural differences that seems apparent to me is that In Canada , the citizen always seems to defer without much thought to the Centralized authority "for the good of the community" The down side to it (again a personal perception) is that while you get a standardized level of care you give up some choice and pay for the communities care with no option but to fund others bad choices. In the States we have an instinctive distrust of a centralized authority "I'm from the government I am here to help" is a long standing joke. We have more choices in terms of health care coverage but it is a personal responsibility. My Co Pay is never more than 1k a year, but I pay a bit more up front. Some of my health care costs are limited as my wife will never have children so I don't pay for maternity risks or coverage for minor children.
A lot of the screaming here in the states come from people who want to have what the other guy has without taking the risks or responsibilities that the other guy took to get it. As I said there is a lot to Admire about the Canadian system , having experienced it I would not choose to subject myself to it again.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by nhgunnut

I respect that and if I were to move back to Canada I would love to go to Alberta or BC. As I said it is a personal Preference and a Very Different Culture and not to be contrary but fist by my standard 33% is a Lot of money and by the time you factor in GST I bet you are paying 40% of your income to the federal Government. Again nothing wrong with that you get a standardized level of service. One of the major cultural differences that seems apparent to me is that In Canada , the citizen always seems to defer without much thought to the Centralized authority "for the good of the community" The down side to it (again a personal perception) is that while you get a standardized level of care you give up some choice and pay for the communities care with no option but to fund others bad choices. In the States we have an instinctive distrust of a centralized authority "I'm from the government I am here to help" is a long standing joke. We have more choices in terms of health care coverage but it is a personal responsibility. My Co Pay is never more than 1k a year, but I pay a bit more up front. Some of my health care costs are limited as my wife will never have children so I don't pay for maternity risks or coverage for minor children.
A lot of the screaming here in the states come from people who want to have what the other guy has without taking the risks or responsibilities that the other guy took to get it. As I said there is a lot to Admire about the Canadian system , having experienced it I would not choose to subject myself to it again.

One of the most ridiculous statements about the proposed healthcare bill is the Republicans who argue against this government administered program have no problem with their own government run healthcare. The statement would make sense if the two systems had any chance of being similar. There will be no similarities between them.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

I had gall bladder surgery, and then went back in a few days later with a raging infection. How much did the operation cost me? $0. How much did a week in the hospital on morphine, percoset and antibiotics cost $0...I do pay more in taxes up here, but seriously the additional taxes is less than what I paid monthly for shitty insurance in the states.

Did the doctors work for free?

My problem with governmetn healthcare is someone like me who eats healthy, doesn't smoke, exercises, and doesn't stay at home drinking beer and eating hotwings yelling at a TV screen will be FORCED to pay for that person who doesn't eat healthy, doesn't exercise, smokes, and stays at home drinking beer and eating hot wings yelling at a tv screen.

The private sector always provides the best solutions and I prefer keeping it that way. The only reason our private insurance is fucked up now is because of government interaction.

Not to mention there is no constitutionality (American) to taking someone else's wealth and giving it to someone else which is also morally wrong.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Did the doctors work for free?

My problem with governmetn healthcare is someone like me who eats healthy, doesn't smoke, exercises, and doesn't stay at home drinking beer and eating hotwings yelling at a TV screen will be FORCED to pay for that person who doesn't eat healthy, doesn't exercise, smokes, and stays at home drinking beer and eating hot wings yelling at a tv screen.

The private sector always provides the best solutions and I prefer keeping it that way. The only reason our private insurance is fucked up now is because of government interaction.

Not to mention there is no constitutionality (American) to taking someone else's wealth and giving it to someone else which is also morally wrong.

It's the American way to worry about paying for the mooches...

[goof2]

Originally Posted by azoomm

It's the American way to worry about paying for the mooches...

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Usually mis-attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville. I'm fine with him not being the one who said it. He strikes me as having been a douche of the highest order.

I find the statement especially interesting considering we recently passed the point where over half of the public has no federal income tax liability.

[sherri_chickie]

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

[azoomm]

Originally Posted by sherri_chickie

My biggest problem with the American system, when I was there is how even if you have a job, you may not have adequate insurance. That a ' doctor" working for an HMO gets to decide if you get a procedure or medication when they have never seen you and get bonuses for turning down procedures, therefore saving money. I think that the last thing a sick person needs is to worry about how they are going to afford their treatment or if their insurance will pay for it.

And it is not just people with bad lifestyles that end up needing the hospital. Cancer can hit anyone, heart disease can be heriditary, and anyone can have an accident and end up in serious condition. I have a coworker with the healthiest habits of anyone I know who is having serious headaches right now and having to go through tests.

I think there is a way for everyone to have insurance and it be well run and not stupidly expensive. European countries have it better than we do, maybe look at their models closer. I am not saying the current proposal in the states is the right way to do it, but I think something has to change. Besides when a family goes bankrupt from medical bills, it affects all other industries as well.

I know you seem sold a bill of goods, that our system is bad - and Canada good. I get that.

But, each side can give you answers to fit the situation you are looking for. I'm curious where you got your $4000 tab for children? I had two children and paid a total of $250 for EACH child. Granted, I don't recall what my monthly payments were - but I wasn't making a lot of money at the time, and neither was my ex-husband. I had a low level Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance plan... and that price included all prenatal vitamins, hospital stay, doctor visits, and followup. Maybe times have changed THAT MUCH in 15 years

Let's see, I have recently had a few procedures that weren't emergent - and were completely covered by insurance. Ooops, $25 co-pay. My husband even hurt himself trying to fly a motorcycle sideways - dislocated heel, copays for the doc and urgent care.

The most expensive thing I've paid for recently is $3,000 for my daughter's braces. Canada cover that one?

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness... is this qualified under "life"?