Teaching newbies to ride.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

What level of training is the euro report referring too? Euro training and testing is leaps and bounds better than the msf.

Sorry racer your bias can only carry you so far but the Limitations of msf are glaring.

glaring.......lol

it's a public service, is it the end all, NO, is it better then nothing, YES

you can make a diff. since you're so knowledgable. join the ranks.

whatever man, we call talk like we'll do something grand and make a better mousetrap, but in the end it's all talk.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

glaring.......lol

it's a public service, is it the end all, NO, is it better then nothing, YES

you can make a diff. since you're so knowledgable. join the ranks.

whatever man, we call talk like we'll do something grand and make a better mousetrap, but in the end it's all talk.

There is better, there is lots better. There are all sorts of better training classes out there that are more in depth. However they require far more money and time. Something a lot of people don't want to give to this training.

The problem with MSF is it's pricing itself above it's value. It's a decent course sub $100, but in most markets it's well over that now. Sorry, but it's just not worth it. For the type of fees they are charging, you should get a lot more value for your money.

I don't have the time to do MSF and why would I support something I don't believe in anyway?

I am not looking to train everyone out there. I am not looking train all the sportbikers. I am only giving advice to those that ask for it. If you have an experienced rider that is willing to spend far more time with you than MSF and monitor your training beyond the parking lot, you can be better off than taking the MSF and then trying to figure wtf you are suppose to do on the road.

I believe avatard has enough experience to train his girl far better than what's offered in MSF. If they will have the patience to allow for this is a whole other question that I wouldn't know because I don't know him to that level.

[racedoll]

Originally Posted by Trip

If you have an experienced rider that is willing to spend far more time with you than MSF and monitor your training beyond the parking lot, you can be better off than taking the MSF and then trying to figure wtf you are suppose to do on the road.

I believe avatard has enough experience to train his girl far better than what's offered in MSF. If they will have the patience to allow for this is a whole other question that I wouldn't know because I don't know him to that level.

I'll agree with this but I will also say this. Maybe Avatard doesn't have the patience to teach his GF to ride a bike? If that is the case, then her taking the MSF to start is a good foundation that he can then build upon to take her beyond the parking lot. She will have a basic knowledge to get less frustrated when he is helping her.

Then again, maybe not.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by racedoll

I'll agree with this but I will also say this. Maybe Avatard doesn't have the patience to teach his GF to ride a bike? If that is the case, then her taking the MSF to start is a good foundation that he can then build upon to take her beyond the parking lot. She will have a basic knowledge to get less frustrated when he is helping her.

Then again, maybe not.

Yeah I can't answer that question, not really knowing them. That's also why I tell people to take MSF, because with my lack of free time I don't really have the patience to teach most people. If it was someone important to me, I would make the time though. If I found we couldn't work together properly, I would also advise them to continue training through MSF.

[Rangerscott]

I taught myself to ride. That means any asshole out there can. So get on that bike and join the other asshole out there on the road. It'll be grand.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Trip

The problem with MSF is it's pricing itself above it's value. It's a decent course sub $100, but in most markets it's well over that now. Sorry, but it's just not worth it. For the type of fees they are charging, you should get a lot more value for your money.

.

sub $100, you realize its about 15-16hrs total of classroom/riding, w/ the maj. of it being riding?

how much should it be?

like i said, it's state subsidized, some states free some more. i bet most of the $400 are HD;s riding program w/ the HD price (Riders Edge).

as for better programs, sure they are "better" programs for already able riders, i can't think of any that start out w/ "this is the ft brake, this is the throttle"

http://www.ridelikeaprohouston.com/

$100 for 5 hrs

heck even these guys recommend taking MSF

"Every rider should sign up for as many MSF, or ERC classes, as you can. Knowledge is power, the more information riders get from the videos, books and classes, the better, safer and more skilled riders you become"

[Trip]

Originally Posted by RACER X

sub $100, you realize its about 15-16hrs total of classroom/riding, w/ the maj. of it being riding?

how much should it be?

like i said, it's state subsidized, some states free some more. i bet most of the $400 are HD;s riding program w/ the HD price (Riders Edge).

as for better programs, sure they are "better" programs for already able riders, i can't think of any that start out w/ "this is the ft brake, this is the throttle"

http://www.ridelikeaprohouston.com/

$100 for 5 hrs

heck even these guys recommend taking MSF

"Every rider should sign up for as many MSF, or ERC classes, as you can. Knowledge is power, the more information riders get from the videos, books and classes, the better, safer and more skilled riders you become"

It should be sub $100 for the amount of people they put in the class.

Europe has much better training programs. That don't revolve around bruh bruh bruh bruh riders either. We just have shit for training here in the states.

Personally, I think the learn in the dirt when you are a kid is the best way to go about things.

I don't really give a damn what some guys who put on a class in Houston think really.

[Avatard]

Originally Posted by racedoll

I'll agree with this but I will also say this. Maybe Avatard doesn't have the patience to teach his GF to ride a bike? If that is the case, then her taking the MSF to start is a good foundation that he can then build upon to take her beyond the parking lot. She will have a basic knowledge to get less frustrated when he is helping her.

Then again, maybe not.

Nah, I have the patience, but she locks up easy. I dunno if it's a touch of dyslexia, or what...but often there's a comm. fail too. That only makes it worse...but I've seen her lock under even mild pressure. Some people are solid under pressure (I am)...she's a doe in headlights.

Trust me, I'm a good judge of this, and she's a prime candidate for the 'ole "twist and freeze".

[Archren]

Originally Posted by Avatard

Nah, I have the patience, but she locks up easy. I dunno if it's a touch of dyslexia, or what...but often there's a comm. fail too. That only makes it worse...but I've seen her lock under even mild pressure. Some people are solid under pressure (I am)...she's a doe in headlights.

Trust me, I'm a good judge of this, and she's a prime candidate for the 'ole "twist and freeze".

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man, but maybe she is the LAST person you want on a motorcycle.

Someone at that age with that kind of twitchiness isn't going to just get over it. Particularly with the nature of motorcycling involving quick thinking and quick reactions to several things at once (for instance, making the quick decision to quick stop or dodge, depending on if you have a car riding your ass behind you). Freezing has a high chance of being deadly.

Just my opinion.

I am a fan of the MSF myself. But then I learn better in a regimented environment where there are other noobs around me so I don't feel like as much of an idiot. It is just a very BASIC course, but it's a good start, and you can always supplement what she learns from the course. Again, just an opinion.

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by RACER X

this is fact:

"22. The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents. "

your results may vary.

As others pointed out, according to this study, the claim is the opposite of what you stated. http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/90432134.html#commentbox

But the accident rate of these people taking the MSF IMO has nothing to do with taking a course or being a more educated rider. Riders taking courses as such tend to be more sportbike oriented and as a result will push their limits. Also, a large reason people take the MSF course is to get out of taking the DMV road test, which is inherently harder on a sportbike.