Second Hand Smoke

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Apoc

I ride my Harley, I dont hang out at bike nights

So since I rode to a bike night in shitville, am I a poseur?

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

So since I rode to a bike night in shitville, am I a poseur?

were you drinking at a seedy bar, looking at the bikes outside, and complaining about the smoke? While you smoked yourself?

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Apoc

were you drinking at a seedy bar, looking at the bikes outside, and complaining about the smoke? While you smoked yourself?

Nope. I was in the middle of a parking lot outside a massive bowling alley complaining about the cigarette smoke, while breathing in exhaust from Harleys.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Nope. I was in the middle of a parking lot outside a massive bowling alley complaining about the cigarette smoke, while breathing in exhaust from Harleys.

exhaust is exhaust... no matter what its from.

Im just pointing out, if people dont want to deal with the shit that goes on at bike nights, dont go to bike nights. Ive never been to one that wasnt filled with smoke/burnouts/etc etc. So why expect different?

[Apoc]

I should also admit, im a little defensive about 2-strokes because of the way the governement is trying to rid the world of them.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Apoc

I should also admit, im a little defensive about 2-strokes because of the way the governement is trying to rid the world of them.

Clean 2-stroke technology exists. Manufacturers won't build it, because buyers don't want to pay for it. At this point there's little effective benefit from 2-stroke over 4-stroke anyway.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Clean 2-stroke technology exists. Manufacturers won't build it, because buyers don't want to pay for it. At this point there's little effective benefit from 2-stroke over 4-stroke anyway.

Therein lies the rub.

I like the smokers as much as Apoc. It is sad to see them forced into retirement.

However, the engines we grew up on are pollutin' sons o' bitches, no doubt about it.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Clean 2-stroke technology exists. Manufacturers won't build it, because buyers don't want to pay for it. At this point there's little effective benefit from 2-stroke over 4-stroke anyway.

Manufacturers build tons of modern, clean 2strokes, just not on the street. They burn less oil than ever, and make tons of power (my sled has 145hp stock, and is bullet proof, at 800cc)

But.. They still burn oil, they still smoke, and they are still way dirtier than 4 strokes.

People can argue all they want about the benefits of 4 strokes. Yes, 4 strokes are more reliable and cleaner, but they make less power (a 450 2 stroke dirtbike, is raced in the 250 smoker class, 990 and 800cc race bikes, replaced 500cc 2 strokes, etc etc), and the snap and rush of the instant rpm's on a 4stroke just isnt anywhere near what it is on a 2 stroke. And im not saying that 4stroke technology should go away, and we should bring back 2 strokes exclusively for snow and dirt, i would be a fool and an idiot to think that. Just that the option should still be there for those of us who will still want 2 strokes in the future.

[Sean]

I ride with a couple of die-hard 2-smoke freaks and I feel like they're smoking something. Yes, the power-to-weight ratio is unmatched, but that CR250R feels like it's going to rip my arms off, it snaps like a mofo, and at the end of the day he's exhausted and I'm still sprightly. Guess who ends up loading the bikes?

Maybe that's the reason.

I've considered buying a 125 just for MX duty since I can pick up a 2003 CR125 for slightly more than what a new top end job would cost for my KTM, but then I'd have to be "one of those 2-stroke guys", and that's not a lifestyle change I'm prepared to deal with just yet.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes, the power-to-weight ratio is unmatched, but that CR250R feels like it's going to rip my arms off, it snaps like a mofo

And the reason you dont like them, is the reason we love them. Different strokes for different folks.

But chances are if you had started out on smokers, you would prefer them today.

Then again, maybe your just in better shape than them. One doesnt tire me anymore than the other. (they both tire me, im out of shape)