Leaning versus Knee Down

[HRCNICK11]

For the record I do both when I ride supermoto. In the really crazy tight turns I ride foot out. In the crazy high speed sweepers I ride knee out. Again there is not one correct way that works in every corner both styles have there place that they are faster and safer.

[HRCNICK11]

Oh and in the photo I posted Mark Burkhart was turning not crashing.

[No Worries]

Wow. I had to double check to see if this was the street section and not the track or dirt section. Emulating racers on the street can lead to trouble. There are riders on this forum who don’t use the rear brake, just because some road racer was shown braking with the rear wheel off the ground. Using the rear brake tightens your line, and pulls you to the inside of the corner.

What can I say about Lookout Mountain? It's a great place to practice every aspect of street riding. There are six switchbacks; 12 if you go up and down. Half of the 50 corners are blind. Anyone who rides it like a racetrack is crazy. You don’t need the latest and greatest sportbike, dirt bike, or supermoto to ride it fast. My 30-year-old bike does just fine.

Drewpy and OSP almost made it to Lookout Mountain, but you know the story. The only Fixer that I’ve ridden with is sfarson. Earlier in this thread I said how fast he is. I rode with him when I was leading, but when he led, he was gone. That’s when he was on his BMW. Forget about his Ducati. And sfarson is no youngster either.

I’ve only seen two of those supermoto-type bikes on Lookout Mountain, and both riders were hanging off in normal road bike style. I’ll admit that I could never get comfortable sliding a dirt bike with slicks on pavement like the professionals. I probably wet my leathers every time a tire slips out on my own bike.

I’ve seen several supermoto bikes on the street. Were they sliding around corners dirt-bike style? No. They were riding the same way most of the dual-sport riders ride. Pulling wheelies. Does HRCNICK11 ride his supermoto on the street? If so, how do you ride it around corners?

[HRCNICK11]

I ride the DRZ on the street and it slides very nice. I have ridden both ways depending on the road. The tighter the corner the more likely I am to ride foot out. The crappier the surface the more likely to ride foot out. Large sweepers like a on ramp knee out. Again I let the road and conditions dictate the style of riding I do. But be sure that I do like to slide the bike around the tight stuff.

Shit for that matter I've been known to slide the SV650 foot out on some slower corners. I also loved to power the RC51 rear end around on the exit of street corners. I don't recomend it for a noviced but my friends love the show when they ride with me.

[t-homo]

This thread turned funny.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by No Worries

Emulating racers on the street can lead to trouble. There are riders on this forum who don’t use the rear brake, just because some road racer was shown braking with the rear wheel off the ground. Using the rear brake tightens your line, and pulls you to the inside of the corner.

Careful.... same physics, same pavement, regardless of location.

I use the exact same cornering techniques on the track as I do on the street... and my foot is as far away as possible from the rear brake lever when i'm mid-corner. Not only is it far more risky to use the rear brake mid-corner, but you also have far more control with the front.

Think about it this way.... Would you rather lock up the rear mid corner and highside or the front and lowside?

I'll take a lowside over a highside anyday.



Now if you're talking about straight line emergency braking, that's totally different. Now we're back at the basics, which dictate that both brakes applied simultaneously will give you maximum braking power AND as the weight transitions to the front, the traction available at the rear tire reduces dramatically.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by No Worries

There are riders on this forum who don’t use the rear brake, just because some road racer was shown braking with the rear wheel off the ground. Using the rear brake tightens your line, and pulls you to the inside of the corner.

That's not why we advise not using the rear brake. We advise not using it because it can be very difficult for a newbie to control rear braking and is one of the more common mistakes that lead to mountain crashes. This is following your whole "margin of error" philsophy. If you have become skilled in braking, sure be my guest to use rear braking all you want to break the backend loose. You keep going on and on about not riding street full out and leaving a margin of error, but IF you are doing such riding in that type of responsible manner, you don't need the rear brake on a modern sportbike, that is a hell of a lot lighter than your older one, to make an effective pass on the street and leaving a very common mistake out of your riding as you learn.

[No Worries]

"The purpose of the brakes is to adjust and correct the speed of the motorcycle downward, controlling deceleration. Most riders have the idea that brakes are some kind of on/off switch. This isn't true." Keith Code-A Twist of the Wrist, page 62.

I can go up Lookout Mountain using the brakes for only a few turns. Coming down, it is so steep I have to use them on almost every turn. I put them on smoothly before the turn. On the switchbacks, which are basically U-turns, I put on both my brakes before the turn and keep them on through most of the curve. I usually keep the same pressure on them throughout the turn, but if I have to stop quickly, I just squeeze and press harder.

"Applying both brakes simultaneously will help stabilize the chassis and keep it from pitching forward too quickly." Lee Parks- Total Control, page 73.

Anybody remember the "Anti-dive systems" that the manufacturers used on the front forks in the early 1980's? Anybody ride a bike with linked brakes (where the front and rear brakes are applied with the front lever) to give some feedback on this?

Here's what Sport Rider magazine says about using the rear brake:http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0...lls/index.html

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by No Worries

"The purpose of the brakes is to adjust and correct the speed of the motorcycle downward, controlling deceleration. Most riders have the idea that brakes are some kind of on/off switch. This isn't true." Keith Code-A Twist of the Wrist, page 62.

I can go up Lookout Mountain using the brakes for only a few turns. Coming down, it is so steep I have to use them on almost every turn. I put them on smoothly before the turn. On the switchbacks, which are basically U-turns, I put on both my brakes before the turn and keep them on through most of the curve. I usually keep the same pressure on them throughout the turn, but if I have to stop quickly, I just squeeze and press harder.

"Applying both brakes simultaneously will help stabilize the chassis and keep it from pitching forward too quickly." Lee Parks- Total Control, page 73.

Anybody remember the "Anti-dive systems" that the manufacturers used on the front forks in the early 1980's? Anybody ride a bike with linked brakes (where the front and rear brakes are applied with the front lever) to give some feedback on this?

Here's what Sport Rider magazine says about using the rear brake:http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0...lls/index.html

I don't know fellas,I think he has you here. I was taught to always use both brakes and I do.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by No Worries

"The purpose of the brakes is to adjust and correct the speed of the motorcycle downward, controlling deceleration. Most riders have the idea that brakes are some kind of on/off switch. This isn't true." Keith Code-A Twist of the Wrist, page 62.

I can go up Lookout Mountain using the brakes for only a few turns. Coming down, it is so steep I have to use them on almost every turn. I put them on smoothly before the turn. On the switchbacks, which are basically U-turns, I put on both my brakes before the turn and keep them on through most of the curve. I usually keep the same pressure on them throughout the turn, but if I have to stop quickly, I just squeeze and press harder.

"Applying both brakes simultaneously will help stabilize the chassis and keep it from pitching forward too quickly." Lee Parks- Total Control, page 73.

Anybody remember the "Anti-dive systems" that the manufacturers used on the front forks in the early 1980's? Anybody ride a bike with linked brakes (where the front and rear brakes are applied with the front lever) to give some feedback on this?

Here's what Sport Rider magazine says about using the rear brake:http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0...lls/index.html

And how may I ask do books automatically teach noobs how to properly use the rear brake? Sure if you are on an open track, trying to learn how to use a rear brake is a good idea. If you are on the side of a mountain, learning to use a rear brake isn't such a good idea because no one really wants to find out how a high side feels off a 80 foot cliff. Thank god for Lee Parks though, he really made me hurt less by reading his book.

I watched the Valentino tip video, now I am ready to go out and slide the rear around and win moto gp championships. YEY!!!!!