Lacing wheels

[defector]

Anybody know how, or have a source with directions to lace wheels?
After spending like 2 hours (and over 50% done), I realized there are 2 different length spokes. Dammit.

32 spoke 12 inch wheels if it matters.


EDIT: Got it. I am a goon - not different lengths, but different angles (90* and roughly 45*)
For future reference, 90* are the outside spokes, and the 45* are the inside.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by defector

Anybody know how, or have a source with directions to lace wheels?
After spending like 2 hours (and over 50% done), I realized there are 2 different length spokes. Dammit.

32 spoke 12 inch wheels if it matters.


EDIT: Got it. I am a goon - not different lengths, but different angles (90* and roughly 45*)
For future reference, 90* are the outside spokes, and the 45* are the inside.

You're no worse than I am bro!

[defector]

Back to being a goon. The video I found on the web is for xr50/crf50 style hubs, and the hubs I have are surely not xr50 hubs.
Chinese, no doubt, since I got the entire assembly for like $40 off ebay.

After tearing it down, there is an obvious length difference in the spoke length, so I will just stagger them long/short. Now my thought process is to have the longer spokes on the inner most part of the hub, and the shorter on the outer. Make sense to anybody?

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by defector

Back to being a goon. The video I found on the web is for xr50/crf50 style hubs, and the hubs I have are surely not xr50 hubs.
Chinese, no doubt, since I got the entire assembly for like $40 off ebay.

After tearing it down, there is an obvious length difference in the spoke length, so I will just stagger them long/short. Now my thought process is to have the longer spokes on the inner most part of the hub, and the shorter on the outer. Make sense to anybody?

Yes, that is correct.

The easy was to do this, is to replace the spokes one by one, as you remove them, but it sounds like that is no longer an option.

First things first: Get a spoke wrench if you don't have one. They're cheap, and make this job 100X easier than using, well, whatever it is you're using that isn't a spoke wrench.

So, what you need to do now, is layout some masking tape on the rim and hub, and number all of them. Install two spokes (snug but not tight) inner and outer, every 90 degrees. Recheck that you have the pattern correct, (ie., is the hub still centered, and are there an equal amount of holes in between the 90 degree sections) and install the rest of the spokes.

Now for the bad news. Getting all the spokes in the right holes, is the easy part. Now you have to true the wheel. Start by trying to get all the nipples roughly at the same torque. You can do this by counting the threads showing, or noting the position of the end of the spoke in the nipple (make them all flush, and the count the turns of the spoke wrench as you tighten them). They make a special torque wrench for this, but they are expensive for one time use.

Once you have a rough true, put the wheel on a balancing stand, or clamp the axle in a vice so you can spin the wheel. You could also put the wheel on the bike, but it's hard on the back. It will probably be wobbly as fuck. You need to figure out a way to measure where the wheel is "high" and "low" as it spins. A dial indicator makes this simple, but if you don't have one, you can rig up something above the wheel, to use as a reference. It won't be dead accurate, but it's better than nothing. Where the wheel is high, you have to tighten the spokes, where it's low, you loosen. Try to split the difference by alternating 180 degrees, as you go. Ok, you have high/low sorted. Check the run-out (side to side movement) and adjust as needed, while trying not to screw up the high/low. It's a long process. The last one I did, took two days before I was happy.

Another old school method, is to tap the spokes with a small wrench (or a tuning fork) and listen to the "pitch". It's like tuning a guitar, except that you want all the strings, (spokes) to have the exact same sound. It's tricky, and it takes forever, but it works.

ETA: How tight should they be? Hard question to answer on the net. Too loose, the hub will self-machine itself to death. Too tight, the spokes will break on hard impacts. They should be tight, but with a tiny bit of give when you pull on them hard. It's a "feel" thing. Check your back wheel for reference (assuming it's adjusted correctly).

JC

[defector]

Guess I should have specified, this is one I munched a while back. No spoke by spoke replacement option. That would be too damn easy.

Truth is, the wheels currently on the bike are fine, but I want to switch between 10 and 12 inch wheels for my kid, depending on the class rules. I have another wheel for reference, but again, different style hub.

I brought it to work with me today and told my employees to stay the hell out of my office unless they see parts flying out of the window. It is amazing the shit you forget over time. I bet I spent the equivalent of a full year lacing wheels when I was a kid. My old man wouldn't touch them, and was too cheap to buy a complete assembly. (Wonder where I got that from?)

I made some headway today, I think I really just needed to walk away from it for a bit. Started to overthink it and got frustrated. Put all the spokes in after posting last night, and didn't touch it until today. Seems to be going well. We will see when it comes time to true it up. At least that part I have done recently, and I am not worried about that part.

Thanks for the input.

[Avatard]

Fuck, I haven't laced a wheel since I was 16. You get an A for effort...

[was92v]

When I went through AMI back in the stone age, one of the final exams was lacing a wheel. You got a hub, a pile of spokes, a rim and 15 minutes to have a rolling wheel. I could do it then, but it would probably take me a month now.
I'm with Avatard, A for taking it on.

[defector]

Got it!
What a motherfather...
Notice the 2 severely bent spokes (will pick up replacements tomorrow). Didn't bother to start the truing process until I get them replaced. Sitting at about .060" out of round now-more up and down. Not much [.025"] side to side, with just finger tightening. No real adjustments made as of yet.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by was92v

When I went through AMI back in the stone age, one of the final exams was lacing a wheel. You got a hub, a pile of spokes, a rim and 15 minutes to have a rolling wheel. I could do it then, but it would probably take me a month now.
I'm with Avatard, A for taking it on.

I'm just about ready to re-lace the wheels on my '69 Triumph.

Between the three of us, I bet we could get it done by New Years.

JC

[was92v]

Probably wouldn't be up and rolling until Easter...