want a 600cc SS bike for a first bike?

[Amber Lamps]

Ok here we go....

Originally Posted by RACER X

man another good analogy, wouldn't the NBA's be like riding SS bikes? vs a beginner bike? i mean there's not alot faster on the roads, esp. for the $. so should a person start in NBA's or in the junior league's?

There HAVE been players to come in right out of high school or even off the street. Some players ARE good enough to skip the "junior leagues"

Originally Posted by RACER X

as for ever person taking the MSF, well it prolly would be a good idea, and who's to say there's not legistion being looked at that might go that direction, esp. w/ the new nanny director in charge.

We'll see...

Originally Posted by RACER X

if i remember you claimed to have been in the military, is that where you took MSF? cuz it's mandatory for all military riders, and sportbikes deaths have been so bad recently, that the military is now mandating sportbike riders (not cruiser riders) to take a 2nd class, still looking for details on that one.

So you're saying that even though military people are mandated to take MSF,they are still crashing....interesting...

Originally Posted by RACER X

fact 90% of motorcycle DEATHS (not injuries or crashes) are people who are self taught or taught by family and friends. crazy odds.

um...I'm wondering where you are getting your information...did someone hire a medium to interview these guys post mortem to ask them if they took MSF? Besides,most riders have never taken MSF courses and you know it and I doubt that all of these incidents could have been avoided had they just taken your 2 or 3 day class... BTW are you saying that 1 out of 20 people who take MSF are gonna die in a MC crash?

Originally Posted by RACER X

what are the odds that a young person on a SS person is gonna crash? ask your insurance agent what full coverage is, and get back to me.

Shit! What are the odds that EVERYONE riding a SS bike is gonna crash? I don't know about YOUR forum but almost EVERYONE on this forum has crashed at least once!!!

Originally Posted by RACER X

as for starter bike, crazy how the most of the world, who taking biking more seriously have tiered licensing, where you have to start w/ a small cc bike as a begineer bike, vs. the wonderful USA where a then noob like yourself could get a beast like a VMAX (the rebuttal for " i made it " is in the contested post.

Yea darn I wish I lived in a socialist country like France where bikes over 100hp aren't even ALLOWED!!! For the record,riders usually die when they have accidents with other motor vehicles and that,my friend,can happen regardless of the size of bike you are on!

Originally Posted by RACER X

lucky for you my knowledge is 2x yours, i started riding the day before yesterday.

Oh thank God that you are here to save me from my ignorance!!!


WHEW!

[Rsv1000R]

IMO SS bikes get inexperienced riders over their heads, before they realize it. Non Sports bikes tend to give lots of feedback as you go faster, my bike goes 100+ and it's not working hard.

It's like going to the beach while you're learning to swim, If the bottom slowly gets deeper it's not to bad, on the other hand you're definately not as safe if 30 feet from the shore in 3' of water the seafloor drops to 100'. You can suddenly find yourself in trouble, and not have the ingrained skills to get you out of it.

[ceo012384]

This is a common debate that people like to bring up that makes me laugh more and more as my experience increases.

Most new riders will have a crash. However, most of those crashes are not related at all to the displacement of their machine... this is just one of those topics that is 'en vogue' to bring up and more experienced riders like to talk about in a somewhat condescending fashion. I'll admit, I've spoken like that to people considering getting into riding.

The scenario is more that some people have the skills to start riding and do well right off the bat, some will do alright but have some trouble along the way, and some will never be good riders. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

The bottom line is that it really is all dependent on the person. But, since new riders often come looking for advice and they are not yet known by the experienced riders giving said advice, I will admit that suggesting a slower/older/used bike is probably a good idea.

However, writing a 10 page diatribe about the intricacies of technique and why a ninja500 is the only option for a new rider is laughable at best.

By the way, I started riding a year and a half ago on my first bike, a brand new 06 r6. I think I've done alright...

[anthonyk]

It's dependent on the person, but from what I've seen the majority of people are in that middle "will do alright but have trouble along the way" group. Having a bike that's really unforgiving of mistakes will stack the odds against them, and likely cause them to get into trouble when they might not have on a more forgiving bike. Add in the folks who would crash whatever bike they'd get on, and you don't have too many people left who would be just fine starting on an R6 (or whatever). And who can identify those folks over the internet?

I'd like to see some numbers that show that crashing has no relation to the displacement or type of bike. I'm not buying it.

[ceo012384]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

It's dependent on the person, but from what I've seen the majority of people are in that middle "will do alright but have trouble along the way" group. Having a bike that's really unforgiving of mistakes will stack the odds against them, and likely cause them to get into trouble when they might not have on a more forgiving bike. Add in the folks who would crash whatever bike they'd get on, and you don't have too many people left who would be just fine starting on an R6 (or whatever). And who can identify those folks over the internet?

I'd like to see some numbers that show that crashing has no relation to the displacement or type of bike. I'm not buying it.

I don't have numbers, but just think about it:

How do most newbies crash?

It's coming into a turn a little quicker than they're comfortable with and panicking, it's target fixation and running wide, it's have a stiff upper body and tucking the front, it's panic braking and locking up either tire, etc etc etc.

They are input/technique/mental errors that would occur on any bike.

It's not powering out of a turn and highsiding the fuck out of themselves, or doing a 150mph wheelie on a busa into a truck, or other power related errors. Those things DO happen, but just consider what most of the crashes newbs have are caused by.






But like you said (and I said previously), since it's hard to judge people by a few posts on the web, I suppose the start small advice is good advice. However the reasoning for it has never jived with me.

Also, I think the type of person who will do alright on a 600 isn't the type of person who will go on the internet looking for some positive reinforcement about their decision. I took my MSF, did a TON of research and reading, and went and bought my bike. End of story. It was a little while later that I joined some forums.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

It's dependent on the person, but from what I've seen the majority of people are in that middle "will do alright but have trouble along the way" group. Having a bike that's really unforgiving of mistakes will stack the odds against them, and likely cause them to get into trouble when they might not have on a more forgiving bike. Add in the folks who would crash whatever bike they'd get on, and you don't have too many people left who would be just fine starting on an R6 (or whatever). And who can identify those folks over the internet?

I'd like to see some numbers that show that crashing has no relation to the displacement or type of bike. I'm not buying it.

The thing is you'd have a hard time "proving" that displacement/type of bike was the sole cause the accident as well. I've seen people crash 250s and I've seen them crash 'Busas,for most it was panic that put them down and not cc's.

[ceo012384]

^Oh man, tigger and I are agreeing again.... this can't be good

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

This is a common debate that people like to bring up that makes me laugh more and more as my experience increases.

Most new riders will have a crash. However, most of those crashes are not related at all to the displacement of their machine... this is just one of those topics that is 'en vogue' to bring up and more experienced riders like to talk about in a somewhat condescending fashion. I'll admit, I've spoken like that to people considering getting into riding.

The scenario is more that some people have the skills to start riding and do well right off the bat, some will do alright but have some trouble along the way, and some will never be good riders. That's just the way the cookie crumbles.

The bottom line is that it really is all dependent on the person. But, since new riders often come looking for advice and they are not yet known by the experienced riders giving said advice, I will admit that suggesting a slower/older/used bike is probably a good idea.

However, writing a 10 page diatribe about the intricacies of technique and why a ninja500 is the only option for a new rider is laughable at best.

By the way, I started riding a year and a half ago on my first bike, a brand new 06 r6. I think I've done alright...

That is basically what I was trying to say...coming into a corner at 75 instead of 60 is a mistake that can be made on some scooters. Most single vehicle crashes I've seen are these type.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

^Oh man, tigger and I are agreeing again.... this can't be good

Yea,first Obama is elected and now we are agreeing,can it be anything other than the end of days?!?!?!?!

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

Also, I think the type of person who will do alright on a 600 isn't the type of person who will go on the internet looking for some positive reinforcement about their decision. I took my MSF, did a TON of research and reading, and went and bought my bike. End of story. It was a little while later that I joined some forums.

I did the same... but part of that research was to ask fellow riders what they thought... no that a total stranger was going to change my opinion... but if the vast majority said "wrong move" then I'd have re thought my approach. but true... I wasn't in it for positive reinforcement... but just to honestly make sure I wasn't way off base.