War on Drugs: Officially a Failure.

[the chi]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

I think one could make a pretty compelling argument that the (il)legal status of marijuana is the real gateway. If you have to interface with the illegal drug world just to get pot, you're likely to get exposed to other, harder drugs.

I'd like to see numbers that show that medicinal marijuana users are also subject to the same gateway effect. I doubt that's the case.

Those are excellent things to consider. Thank you for the brain food.

Does a weed seller often sell things other than weed?

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by The Chi

I am not that interested. I was hoping you'd give us the short version since you are apparently so well versed on the matter.

You want to argue about vewipoints but not the actaul discussion material...

Is the second sentence really necessary. Why do you feel the need for the finger pointing in all this, lets just have a conversation.

The reason it is kept illegal is because the most powerful, Government lobbying, industries in the United States are threatened by Marijuana legalization because it will cost them billions of dollars. Examples:

Big Pharma: It will become laughable that we ever took anti-depressants and other prescription medications when we realize how many of our "problems" could've been fixed/helped by a simple and free plant. Big Pharma will lose Billions and their status as a powerhouse.

Alcohol: Big Beer contributes more money to the Government through lobbying than Firearms and Tobacco combined, by far. This is serious business. Once people realize there is a free, mind-altering substance out there that won't kill you, and won't make you piss yourself they're going to stop buying so much alcohol. Same effect as Big Pharma.

Textile industries: Paper, plastic etc all stand to lose by the legalization of Cannabis and Hemp.

The Government: There is a certain "enlightenment" that comes from Marijuana use. This is not because smoking pot is a magical experience, but because you realize that every authority figure you've ever known has lied to you. Your parents, your teachers, the police, the government...everyone. Legalization of marijuana means more people will realize just how full of shit their Government is, and always has been.

Now, as to how Marijuana became illegal in the first place, well that's a complicated story involving power, control, racism, corrupt media and evil men. You can read the Wiki version here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_h..._United_States

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by dubbs

I didn't know about Marc Emery.. that's so fucked up.. How the hell will that hold up in court? Isn't Canada supposed to be the one charging him?

No, Canada has buckled under IMMENSE U.S. pressure to send him here to serve a 5 year sentence in an American prison for what amounts to a one MONTH sentence under Canadian law.

Now he gets to look forward to being repeatedly raped and tortured for 5 years....for selling seeds.

Originally Posted by The Chi

Those are excellent things to consider. Thank you for the brain food.

Does a weed seller often sell things other than weed?

Not in my experience. In fact, over the course of 10 years of Marijuana use I have NEVER even seen Cocaine, Methamphetamine or Heroin. I know people who have used and use them (just Coke actually), but I have never once seen any of those substances.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by The Chi

I am not that interested. I was hoping you'd give us the short version since you are apparently so well versed on the matter.

You want to argue about vewipoints but not the actaul discussion material...

I have never researched the basis for it, but working from memory the "legalize it" crowd states it was over the economics of making newspapers. William Hurst owned a lot of timber land and wanted to sell the wood to make paper. Paper could be made much cheaper using hemp making Hurst's timber worth less. He had his newspaper empire run propaganda all over the place about how terrible and evil marijuana was to get the public support for banning it and with some help from his buddies in the government he was able to make it illegal. This had the intended side effect of making the hemp plant illegal thus getting rid of the more competitive raw material for making paper.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by goof2

I have never researched the basis for it, but working from memory the "legalize it" crowd states it was over the economics of making newspapers. William Hurst owned a lot of timber land and wanted to sell the wood to make paper. Paper could be made much cheaper using hemp making Hurst's timber worth less. He had his newspaper empire run propaganda all over the place about how terrible and evil marijuana was to get the public support for banning it and with some help from his buddies in the government he was able to make it illegal. This had the intended side effect of making the hemp plant illegal thus getting rid of the more competitive raw material for making paper.

That's all part of it, but there are many other factors involved. But the Hearst/Paper Mil VS. Hemp paper is what got Hearst involved in spreading the propaganda.

The story is so crazy that it really is hard to believe, yet it is all documented in history.

[Kaneman]

And Chi, while I completely understand and respect why you or anyone would not want to use substances that chemically alter their mind, this still affects everyone who is an American citizen because of what the prohibition does to us as a country and how it contributes to a Police State mentality with trampled civil liberties that is all funded by tax dollars.

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by Rider

No just legalize the natural occurring drugs, weed and shrooms...

The other chemically altered substances can stay illegal.

I can't agree with that because it still has the government telling us we can't do something. There are also plenty of "earth" or "God" made things that are extremely deadly and harmful.

I personally think anyone who does drugs such as weed or heroine are idiots. Not because it is bad for you and it'll tear your family apart, but because you are seriously jepardizing your job or potential employment (or schooling) because many companies have drug policies (that don't have to change with legalization). If you have a job that allows you to answer to no one (such as a business owner or a politician) then go for it.

Now those who do think that legalizing drugs (especially weed) will the the answer to all of our problems are living in a pipe dream.

[the chi]

I couldnt resist.

That was fascinating, thank you! (No sarcasm intended.)

You very much have a good argument for your "side" and honestly, after reading all that I see very much where you are coming from, and agree.

I dont have blinders on when it comes to the crap our govt pulls, but reading about the efforts they made to make it illegal to save their profits and "big money"'s profits really hits home, especially on the nature loving side of me.

Especially this:

USDA Bulletin No. 404, reported that one acre of hemp, in annual rotation over a 20-year period, would produce as much pulp for paper as 4.1 acres (17,000 m2) of trees being cut down over the same 20-year period. This process would use only 1/4 to 1/7 as much polluting sulfur-based acid chemicals to break down the glue-like lignin that binds the fibers of the pulp, or even none at all using soda ash. The problem of dioxin contamination of rivers is avoided in the hemp paper making process, which does not need to use chlorine bleach (as the wood pulp paper making process requires) but instead safely substitutes hydrogen peroxide in the bleaching process. ... If the new (1916) hemp pulp paper process were legal today, it would soon replace about 70% of all wood pulp paper, including computer printout paper, corrugated boxes and paper bags.

Absolutely fascinating. Now if only the other proponents of legalization were as avid and educated on the matter as you are, perhaps there would be a substantial and rewarding effort for legalization attempts.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

I can't agree with that because it still has the government telling us we can't do something. There are also plenty of "earth" or "God" made things that are extremely deadly and harmful.

I personally think anyone who does drugs such as weed or heroine are idiots. Not because it is bad for you and it'll tear your family apart, but because you are seriously jepardizing your job or potential employment (or schooling) because many companies have drug policies (that don't have to change with legalization). If you have a job that allows you to answer to no one (such as a business owner or a politician) then go for it.

Now those who do think that legalizing drugs (especially weed) will the the answer to all of our problems are living in a pipe dream.

Many users have chosen self employment over corporate employment for that reason. Furthermore, many many more Corporations as no longer drug screening applicants because of the costs and because they are having to turn away or fire good workers. In fact, my previous company did not do any drug screening....and they were a serious corp/bank.

Eventually, if it is ever legalized, drug screening will all but disappear from the employment scene.

[dubbs]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

Now those who do think that legalizing drugs (especially weed) will the the answer to all of our problems are living in a pipe dream.

It won't solve all of our problems, but it will solve all of the problems prohibition is causing.