weapon for concealed carry

[Razor]

Owning and carrying a gun doesnt mean you have to use it. It just allows for the option of doing something other than being a victim at the hands of someone else. It allows for the possibilty of taking control of an otherwise uncontrollable situation and having a favorable outcome. Is whats in my wallet worth taking someones life? No, its not... But when it comes to my loved ones saftey, you bet it is...

[Cutty72]

Just cause you have a CCW doesn't mean you are going to carry 24/7.
There are still places that you CAN'T carry, as well as times when you may not feel the need.

It's not about needing to, it's about being ABLE to. IMO

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

Just cause you have a CCW doesn't mean you are going to carry 24/7.
There are still places that you CAN'T carry, as well as times when you may not feel the need.

It's not about needing to, it's about being ABLE to. IMO

I agree totally, better to have and not need, than need and not have... its an old saying but still rings true...

[HokieDNA01]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Ok well,the debate is a "carry" permit and not the right to have guns in your home,so you could have grabbed a rifle or other gun and shot that guy(or woman) if you really wanted to. Although I'm not sure that's the example you really wanted to use. Besides,what threat did that pose to YOU that you required a concealed carry permit? Also,in the everybody should have CCW permits world,both of those people would have had handguns on their person,oh yea that's a GREAT idea...

My point was that it took 25 mins for the cops to get there. I was in no danger but someone was so I called the police and they took forever. There could have been cold bodies on the ground in that amount of time.

[Amorok]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

You know better than that by now buddy...but really,exactly how many times have you been in a liquor store while it's being robbed? Again,where do you people live? You all act like you live in the Bronx or South Central,or somewhere.

You don't know where I've been, you don't know what I've seen, you don't know what I've been through, and you don't know me.Just because I live somewhere nice doesn't mean it's nice all the time. After all, Paris is a beautiful city until someone invades it. And I have reasons for carrying in even the nicest town.

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Besides,what if you miss? What if you only wound him and he goes berserk and kills everyone in the store? The store owner has a gun (trust me,I've worked in hoodrat party stores) did that help him?

Well, I practice to try and avoid missing, but if I do I have 12 more to throw at him, plus the four reloads of 12 rnds each. So I'm not worried about the guy getting pissed off because I shot him. I may not be the best marksman, but I have a fuckload of chances to improve.

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Anyway,I look forward to meeting you at the rally. Heck bring a piece and we'll go do some target practice together if you'd like.

Sounds like fun. I look forward to meeting you there, too, and if you clean it, you can shoot it.

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I don't have anything against guns and I'm not against the second amendment,but I don't honestly think that EVERY pencil neck geek that wants to feel "tough" should be able to carry a pistol everywhere they go.

I don't know, you sound kind of scared to me. Like why do you have a problem with people carrying concealed? If you don't see it then why are you against it? And by the way, I don't need a gun to help me feel tough. I like a gun because I might be confronted by someone with their own gun, or someone much larger than me, or more than one someone. I've been in a lot of tight spots, and I've gotten out of most of them without needing my gun. But if I had needed it it was there.

Originally Posted by TIGGER

It's just an opinion and no amount of name calling or insults is gonna change my mind. I don't want to live in a world where John from accounting tries to stop a bank robbery with a 38 snub nose...

I'd like to live in a world where John from accounting gets to go home every night to his kids without any danger of anything ever happening to him. Sadly, that's not the world we live in, so I'll settle for a world where John from accounting can defend himself and make sure that when someone tries to stop him from going home to his kids, he can fight back. John from accounting might never need to change a flat in his life, but I still recommend he carry a jack, a tire iron and a spare.

EDIT to add:There's a thread on this forum right now about the court case resulting from a guy on a greyhound bus getting stabbed, beheaded and partially eaten by someone. I bet that guy would testify to the greatness of concealed carry. How can you even ask this question in a world like the one we live in?

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by HokieDNA01

My point was that it took 25 mins for the cops to get there. I was in no danger but someone was so I called the police and they took forever. There could have been cold bodies on the ground in that amount of time.

Okay,so what did you do? I mean this is the heart of my argument. What did you do to stop the situation? Did you go out there and try to break it up? I'd imagine that you do have weapons in your house of some kind,why didn't you go out there and stop that guy from beating her up? I would have. What would have been different had you had a CCW? You all realize that a CCW isn't a "go out and play amateur policeman" license,right?Besides,you called in a domestic disturbance,I doubt that you have any idea how many of those kind of calls the cops gets a day. How many that they respond to and it's already over or the couple act as if nothing is going on,or that they see the same people every week. FYI next time say that you "think" he has a gun and see how fast they show up! The cops do have to prioritize the calls they get and respond in kind. Anyway,I see your point,the cops are slow-gotcha,but I'm all for people having guns,how is your having a CCW gonna fix anything besides making you feel safer? Or is that really what this is all about,a security blanket,and not really about saving lives and stopping liquor store heists?

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

Just cause you have a CCW doesn't mean you are going to carry 24/7.
There are still places that you CAN'T carry, as well as times when you may not feel the need.

It's not about needing to, it's about being ABLE to. IMO

See but I agree that you have a RIGHT to,I just don't see why you need to. Shit,if there are places that I might contemplate going but feel that I NEED to bring a gun to go there...well,I guess I won't be going to those places.

Listen Cutty,I have nothing but respect for you,Amorok,Dave and the other guys here who have served but I disagree that every American sans a felony record should carry a gun. I doubt that 1 out of 20 "muggings" end in someone getting hurt. Now if every mugging resulted in a gun battle....

[nhgunnut]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Well,everyone knows this but I pulled my duty in the military...some would say that anyone who hasn't served doesn't deserve ANY rights in this country. That sounds about like what you are saying. I should go around armed and be willing to shoot anyone who gets in my face or threatens me in any way. If you break into my car and try to steal my stereo I should shoot you dead. If a "meth-head" tries to start a fight with me I should blow his brains out. Um yep,right. I personally don't want a bunch of armed vigilantes running around "protecting" me if that's alright with you. Besides AGAIN I have never been against people having guns,all I've ever questioned is the NEED (not right,NEED) to have a CONCEALED gun on your person at all times. Hell in many states you can walk around Wyatt Earp style if you want,what's wrong with that? Really,if you are trying to "deter" crime why not advertise you have a gun?

First because you chose to serve Thank You.
Next as I pointed out The Swiss prove that the possibility that a firearm is present is one the best deterrents for preventing crime. A fact that has long been backed up by simple crime statistics here in this country. The states that have will issue CCW have lower violent crime rates than those that do not. (Per the FBI) This does come with one less pretty reality as well though places where there is access have also show that of those who attempt suicide those with those places where there is access to firearms have a higher rate of completion.
As a responsible citizen that carries on a near daily basis I do how ever find your description of armed vigilantes’ a good illustration of the kind of senseless propaganda that has been perpetuated by the various anti gun groups. People who choose to carry are presented by then as mindless vigilantes. It is rather like the monkey cartoon, it is an easy mindless presentation that has no basis in fact but plays instead to cultural stereotypes that feed the hysteria of one political group. Another misrepresented fact is that if you won a handgun you are more likely to shoot someone you know than a stranger. The rest of that reality is (again according to the FBI) the person most likely to commit a crime against you that warrants the use of deadly force is someone you know. In short , accidental shooting while they happen and are tragic are rare and the largest majority of those included in that statistic "Needed Shooting"
The reality is those of us who do choose to accept the responsibility of carrying a weapon , openly or concealed do so understanding what the consequences are of using deadly force. Among them for those who have not considered them that first without proper training the weapon may be used on you. Once you use deadly force you open yourself to both criminal and civil litigation that will be years if not decades in resolving.
In truth I take no issue with someone who chooses not to carry or use deadly force. I take tremendous issue with being portrayed as macho , or gun crazy or a vigilante. I carry fully understanding that it is a tremendous responsibility and that because I carry my family is probably a little safer, as is the rest of my community because here in NH anyone considering committing a crime does so knowing that about 1 in every 25 or so of us have a CCW. Just over the line in VT where all you need to carry concealed is a clean record and a pocket has even less crime. As far as the question of whether my radio is worth someone’s life my view on that is they decided what their life was worth when they decided to violate my property.
If you don't want exercise option to carry and or the accompanying the responsibility I respect that. Please don't limit my options for your illusion of greater security or to support some political agenda.
As it happens I provide mental health services to the Massachusetts Department of corrections. A state that has some of the most draconian and irrational gun laws in the country. Every day when I go behind the walls I am reminded of how big a failure these laws are.
Having said all of that I will now piss off all the pro gunners by saying I am not now nor have I ever been a meber of the NRA. Recent political events have me considering joining.

[t-homo]

TIGGER, when did you get so damn logical?

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Amorok

You don't know where I've been, you don't know what I've seen, you don't know what I've been through, and you don't know me.Just because I live somewhere nice doesn't mean it's nice all the time. After all, Paris is a beautiful city until someone invades it. And I have reasons for carrying in even the nicest town. Well, I practice to try and avoid missing, but if I do I have 12 more to throw at him, plus the four reloads of 12 rnds each. So I'm not worried about the guy getting pissed off because I shot him. I may not be the best marksman, but I have a fuckload of chances to improve. Sounds like fun. I look forward to meeting you there, too, and if you clean it, you can shoot it.I don't know, you sound kind of scared to me. Like why do you have a problem with people carrying concealed? If you don't see it then why are you against it? And by the way, I don't need a gun to help me feel tough. I like a gun because I might be confronted by someone with their own gun, or someone much larger than me, or more than one someone. I've been in a lot of tight spots, and I've gotten out of most of them without needing my gun. But if I had needed it it was there.I'd like to live in a world where John from accounting gets to go home every night to his kids without any danger of anything ever happening to him. Sadly, that's not the world we live in, so I'll settle for a world where John from accounting can defend himself and make sure that when someone tries to stop him from going home to his kids, he can fight back. John from accounting might never need to change a flat in his life, but I still recommend he carry a jack, a tire iron and a spare.

EDIT to add:There's a thread on this forum right now about the court case resulting from a guy on a greyhound bus getting stabbed, beheaded and partially eaten by someone. I bet that guy would testify to the greatness of concealed carry. How can you even ask this question in a world like the one we live in?

Ummm....I'm not judging you,or where you've been and I know that we don't live in a paradise by any means. You can call me a coward or accuse me of being "scared" if you like,it doesn't really phase me. I am the keeper of my soul. I merely posed the question so to honestly get an idea of the various reasons people carry. Now I know.

1. to stop liquor store robberies
2. to keep "meth-heads" from picking on you
3. because you can/have a right to
4. because it is everyone's "duty" to be armed and protect their property/loved ones
5. because the cops are "slow"
6. to keep from being beheaded on a bus
7. to keep from being mugged in the subburbs
8. so you can go to the Y in the hood in the middle of the night
9. because the world is an awful,terrible place,full of danger and menace
10. so you can confront unarmed people bigger than you are on an "equal" footing

I'll make you all a deal,to keep from being called a coward and slandered,I am going to here to fore avoid the gun topics all together. You all talk about your rights and freedoms but apparently,I don't have the right or the freedom of speech to merely ask a question.