Go buy an MV Agusta now....

[FT BSTRD]

Let's just hope the chrome part count doesn't go up.

[NONE_too_SOFT]

ya i think i'll pick this up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MV-Ag...spagenameZWDVW

[Cutty72]

Hey tigger, not to fuel the fire, but I have worked in production before as well.
Worked for IMAR, the company that made Sugar Sand Jet boats and Gekko tow boats.

When a new design was made, we R&D'd everything (except the engine and drive system) in house, and then sent it off to a supplier to be mass produced. The engines we just spec'd out to a vendor (Mercury) what we wanted, and they gave us options after that.

Not all built in house... but designed. and that's where the R&D costs come in.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Cutty72

Hey tigger, not to fuel the fire, but I have worked in production before as well.
Worked for IMAR, the company that made Sugar Sand Jet boats and Gekko tow boats.

When a new design was made, we R&D'd everything (except the engine and drive system) in house, and then sent it off to a supplier to be mass produced. The engines we just spec'd out to a vendor (Mercury) what we wanted, and they gave us options after that.

Not all built in house... but designed. and that's where the R&D costs come in.

Exactly in line with what I was saying. I know that the posts were long but that's my point. As far as switching vendors btw,unless the customer owned the dies,the new supplier would have to absorb die making and re-tooling costs. Not to mention new production line goof-ups and delays.

Anyway,MV is MV because of the way they are made and the use of nothing but top-notch components. Sure possibly HD could come in and start cost cutting and buying cheaper parts from dubious suppliers instead of using the established first class vendors that MV uses now. They could stop using the best brakes,suspension,fuel injection,rims,etc to save money. Who knows,they could sell you a bike for $10,000 with MV stickers on it...would it be the same bike? I don't think so.

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Exactly in line with what I was saying. I know that the posts were long but that's my point. As far as switching vendors btw,unless the customer owned the dies,the new supplier would have to absorb die making and re-tooling costs. Not to mention new production line goof-ups and delays.

Anyway,MV is MV because of the way they are made and the use of nothing but top-notch components. Sure possibly HD could come in and start cost cutting and buying cheaper parts from dubious suppliers instead of using the established first class vendors that MV uses now. They could stop using the best brakes,suspension,fuel injection,rims,etc to save money. Who knows,they could sell you a bike for $10,000 with MV stickers on it...would it be the same bike? I don't think so.

Volume discount does not equal lower quality parts.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by FT BSTRD

Volume discount does not equal lower quality parts.

I'm really developing a deep hatred of you... j/k I did say "switching vendors/suppliers" not getting existing suppliers to give a better price.

Last attempt,you use a "pail of mayo" analogy,I'll try that...

If I buy a quart of Helman's (my fav) at the store,it costs $2 but if I buy a gallon it costs $7. That's volume discount. If I get married and my wife takes over the shopping and buys a quart of generic mayo for $1.50. That's switching vendors to save money and that's how I think HD would lower the cost of an MV IF they were to do so. Am I saying that generic mayo isn't as good as Helman's? Not necessarily but I am saying that it isn't HELMAN'S. When I go to the store and buy Helman's,I know exactly what I am getting. I've already tried shopping around and found that other brands of mayo aren't up to my strict quality standards. I'm trying to make a premium sandwich here. If I bought generic I would be concerned with consistency and with quality. When I make a sandwich using that product,it will not be the same sandwich I made using the Helman's mayo. Simple. Period.

From your previous examples,you seem to view this as large corporation taking over smaller company that produces a sub-standard product,ie your Ford to Volvo statement. I see it as Ford taking over Porsche and putting Mustang parts on a 911.

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

I'm really developing a deep hatred of you... j/k I did say "switching vendors/suppliers" not getting existing suppliers to give a better price.

Last attempt,you use a "pail of mayo" analogy,I'll try that...

If I buy a quart of Helman's (my fav) at the store,it costs $2 but if I buy a gallon it costs $7. That's volume discount. If I get married and my wife takes over the shopping and buys a quart of generic mayo for $1.50. That's switching vendors to save money and that's how I think HD would lower the cost of an MV IF they were to do so. Am I saying that generic mayo isn't as good as Helman's? Not necessarily but I am saying that it isn't HELMAN'S. When I go to the store and buy Helman's,I know exactly what I am getting. I've already tried shopping around and found that other brands of mayo aren't up to my strict quality standards. I'm trying to make a premium sandwich here. If I bought generic I would be concerned with consistency and with quality. When I make a sandwich using that product,it will not be the same sandwich I made using the Helman's mayo. Simple. Period.

From your previous examples,you seem to view this as large corporation taking over smaller company that produces a sub-standard product,ie your Ford to Volvo statement. I see it as Ford taking over Porsche and putting Mustang parts on a 911.

No need to hate. We're having a great exchange.

Do you believe that the frames manufactured for HD are inferior quality to those produced by MV?

Do you believe that the engine components manufactured for HD are inferior quality to those produced my MV?


If so, that is inaccurate. HD moving production of components from MV's suppliers to HD's suppliers would not necessitate a decline in quality. They don't have to go lower quality to save money. They could, but I'd bet they won't.

Why?

If people stop looking at MV as a quality, sought after motorcycle marque, people will stop coming into the MV showrooms. If people aren't coming into the MV showrooms, they won't be looking at HD models either. It would negate what HD is trying to do.

[6doublefive321]

I'm not sure where all the "price cutting" talk came from. In terms of value, MV's are priced better than HD's. For the same amount of money, you can get either a Brutale 910 or a Fat Bob. One has ~140 hp, weighs ~420 lbs., and has modern suspension. The other doesn't even list hp, only torque, weighs over 700 lbs., and has the same suspension as my 1986 Yamaha Radian. Guess which one is which. Granted, HD may resource parts or restructure current business arrangements, but don't expect any of that to filter down to the end user.

A lot of folks (including myself) will slam HD for their designs, and lack of modernization. However, they know how to run their business. I have no fear that the MV brand will be tainted in any way. If anything, HD's financial stability will help MV stay a low volume, high end bike maker. In the long run, MV fans will be glad that HD took over and allowed MV's to still roll onto the street.

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by 6doublefive321

I'm not sure where all the "price cutting" talk came from. In terms of value, MV's are priced better than HD's. For the same amount of money, you can get either a Brutale 910 or a Fat Bob. One has ~140 hp, weighs ~420 lbs., and has modern suspension. The other doesn't even list hp, only torque, weighs over 700 lbs., and has the same suspension as my 1986 Yamaha Radian. Guess which one is which. Granted, HD may resource parts or restructure current business arrangements, but don't expect any of that to filter down to the end user.

A lot of folks (including myself) will slam HD for their designs, and lack of modernization. However, they know how to run their business. I have no fear that the MV brand will be tainted in any way. If anything, HD's financial stability will help MV stay a low volume, high end bike maker. In the long run, MV fans will be glad that HD took over and allowed MV's to still roll onto the street.

All depends on your definition of value.

[6doublefive321]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

All depends on your definition of value.

I'll grant you that. No one in the market for an HD would even consider the MV, and visa versa. But you'll have to give me that for two comparatively priced machines, there is no way in 17 hells that it costs as much to build the HD as it does the MV. As we are all aware, the HD badge has a value in itself to some folks. Just not me.