2010 Hayden edition duc 848

[Speedracer42]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

And it was prob said by a guy who has never raced a lap in his life. That shit irritates me (as a racer) is all.

Dude this post is full of, "I'm a racer or he's a racer so he should know" bullshit. You think that because someone spends a couple hundred a weekend club racing that his "perspective" on MotoGp or racing in general is more valid than someone who hasn't. Well, I did some club racing back in the day, NOW is my opinion valid? Hayden and his fans have a bucket load of excuses to explain why he can't win. I love it because I predicted this in an old thread. They are already breaking out the "Ducati developed that bike for Stoner" excuse. I wonder about that, since Casey wasn't their "A" rider when he won his championship... BTW everyone is judged statistically, you're not a great pick up artist if you only fuck one hot chick.

Btw I agree that Chad deserved the championships he got but it's the shit that he talks in between the races that makes me dislike him. He won't just acknowledge that Stewart is better than he is. I believe that James is racing a couple outdoors this season, I can't wait to watch him completely smoke Chad Reed.

I do think an opinion on a racers performance is more valid from someone who has raced. You ever see a surgery on tv? Like on "Life in the ER" or a show like that? If you are a plumber and because it is televised your opinion on the docs performance is now valid? People can and should have opinions. But I will certainly put more weight on one's opinion than others. If a newb posted a question on which bike to get and an MSF instructor, a trackday instructor, and a guy who has been riding for 3 days all posted their opinions who's are you more likely to listen to?

And I agree 100% with your sentiments on Reed. This year James doesn't need to be there. Plenty of other guys are showing him the way.

[marko138]

I dont put stock in anything Tigger says. Dude is a hot air balloon.

[Big Kahuna]

Wow, when did this thread go EPIC??????

[Trip]

Originally Posted by Speedracer42

As someone who races I just have a different perspective. You guys can love him or hate him. I don't give a shit. But to show a total lack of respect for a guy and justifying your opinion based on statistics is still missing the point. And I will give another comparison. If any of you follow motocross/supercross Chad Reed is a good example. His Supercross championships came with RC and/or Bubba misssing. So people dog him. I don't like him AT ALL. But he deserves those titles IMO because he was the best of who was out there. And while maybe those guys aren't in the same league as Bubba or RC they are still stupid fucken fast and Chad had to beat them.

I don't give a shit about how they deal with fans, that can be argued. He is a product and if he isn't making himself a sellable item by screwing over the base he is trying to sell to, it could land him in trouble keeping a job if he isn't performing on the track. Casey doesn't have this problem yet as he has performed decently.

How much is that respect worth really? The respect that I would show a athlete for an ability be it natural, environmental, or learned would be very minimal. Showing lack of respect for this ability, wouldn't take much because the level of respect is that of a circus clown that is the best at his job. They aren't US military soldiers risking their lives for our freedom or curing someone of cancer, they are putting on a show to entertain the masses. It's that simple. Respect is minimal at best, so showing a lack of it for statistics would not be outrageous in any means.

I don't put the same worth on the ability to ride a motorcycle, so it isn't offensive to discuss the quality of moto gp riders as statistics.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Speedracer42

I do think an opinion on a racers performance is more valid from someone who has raced. You ever see a surgery on tv? Like on "Life in the ER" or a show like that? If you are a plumber and because it is televised your opinion on the docs performance is now valid? People can and should have opinions. But I will certainly put more weight on one's opinion than others. If a newb posted a question on which bike to get and an MSF instructor, a trackday instructor, and a guy who has been riding for 3 days all posted their opinions who's are you more likely to listen to?

And I agree 100% with your sentiments on Reed. This year James doesn't need to be there. Plenty of other guys are showing him the way.

Well, if the question is who's a better surgeon, Dr Jones or Dr Smith and the plumber has watched 1,000 surgeries with both of these doctors, has all of their success/failure charts, he might know something...

What bike to get is a subjective question full of opinion and conjecture. Who is a better racer is a statistical question easily answered with facts. Example, who's a better racer Hayden or Stoner? Easy Stoner had more wins in 2007 than Hayden has in almost 6 years or racing. Regardless of who you are or what you do, you can't change the facts and Hayden has been sucking it for the past few years period. End of story. This is a matter of fact not opinion. I don't care if you are Agostini, you're "professional" opinion isn't going to change that. In '06 Rossi had 3 DNFs, an 8th, a 13th and a 14th and Nicky still only won the championship by 5 points...

Oh and yea the situation with Reed is funny to me, he just won his 1st outdoor race the other day now that Villipoto and Alessi are out! Hahahaha!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Trip

I don't put the same worth on the ability to ride a motorcycle, so it isn't offensive to discuss the quality of moto gp riders as statistics.

Exactly, how else do you "measure" them? Just because you get on the track doesn't mean you can read the boards better than I can... The results are everything in racing IMHO, everything else is smoke and mirrors. Lots of people hate Pedrosa, they say he "stole" Nicky's ride and that he's an asshole or what ever but be that as it may, he still has won more races than Hayden, pure and simple and that is what counts at the end of the day. Whether you or your multiplate having buddy wish to believe that or not.

[The Awesome]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

Exactly, how else do you "measure" them? Just because you get on the track doesn't mean you can read the boards better than I can... The results are everything in racing IMHO, everything else is smoke and mirrors.

In all sports, it's important to consider the circumstances when you try to evaluate how good an athlete really is. The stats only tell part of the story. Dan Marino doesn't have a superbowl ring, and Ben Roethlisberger has two. Roethlisberger isn't fit to carry Marino's jock strap, but if you compare the results, Ben has them and Dan does not.

In racing, you have to consider the equipment and team aspects, as well as the competition they face. Everybody wants to be champion when guys like Schumacher and Rossi are out on the track, not after they retire. A lot of the time, great riders can be hindered by inferior equipment. Hopkins is a good example of a rider that did very well with crappy equipment. Hayden is a good example of a guy that has been on the best equipment from the get go, and has a lot of circumstantial factors surrounding his only good season. The stats won't reflect those kinds of things, and that's why you have to look deeper if you want to get the whole picture.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by The Awesome

In all sports, it's important to consider the circumstances when you try to evaluate how good an athlete really is. The stats only tell part of the story. Dan Marino doesn't have a superbowl ring, and Ben Roethlisberger has two. Roethlisberger isn't fit to carry Marino's jock strap, but if you compare the results, Ben has them and Dan does not.

In racing, you have to consider the equipment and team aspects, as well as the competition they face. Everybody wants to be champion when guys like Schumacher and Rossi are out on the track, not after they retire. A lot of the time, great riders can be hindered by inferior equipment. Hopkins is a good example of a rider that did very well with crappy equipment. Hayden is a good example of a guy that has been on the best equipment from the get go, and has a lot of circumstantial factors surrounding his only good season. The stats won't reflect those kinds of things, and that's why you have to look deeper if you want to get the whole picture.

Yeah and according to speed, you aren't qualified to examine if Ben can carry Dan's jock because you haven't played football on a high enough level.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by The Awesome

In all sports, it's important to consider the circumstances when you try to evaluate how good an athlete really is. The stats only tell part of the story. Dan Marino doesn't have a superbowl ring, and Ben Roethlisberger has two. Roethlisberger isn't fit to carry Marino's jock strap, but if you compare the results, Ben has them and Dan does not.

In racing, you have to consider the equipment and team aspects, as well as the competition they face. Everybody wants to be champion when guys like Schumacher and Rossi are out on the track, not after they retire. A lot of the time, great riders can be hindered by inferior equipment. Hopkins is a good example of a rider that did very well with crappy equipment. Hayden is a good example of a guy that has been on the best equipment from the get go, and has a lot of circumstantial factors surrounding his only good season. The stats won't reflect those kinds of things, and that's why you have to look deeper if you want to get the whole picture.

Yea but so are Stoner and Rossi... I mean Stoner won his championship his first year with Ducati, his bike was "developed for someone else" wasn't it? Rossi won a championship his first year with Yamaha when everyone said it was impossible.

Statistics will show who has the best rider/bike combination for sure, I honestly believe that Rossi could win on almost any bike on the grid. A champion takes what he is given and finds a way to win! I actually like Hopper but do you mean to imply that he would be champion if only he had a chance on Ducati, Yamaha or Honda? I doubt it. My guess is that he's not very good at developing a bike which keeps him out of the big leagues. I think that's Nicky's problem as well honestly. I mean he was complaining of "lack of drive" out of the corners the other day...are you serious? The Ducati has a "lack of drive"...

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Trip

Yeah and according to speed, you aren't qualified to examine if Ben can carry Dan's jock because you haven't played football on a high enough level.

Exactly! Who do you think you are?