War on Drugs: Officially a Failure.

[dubbs]

Originally Posted by The Chi

I think the gateway drug debate is an interesting one tho. I honestly think it depends on the personality involved. I have an acquaintance who was very seriously hooked on cocaine at one point and she very much swears that it was weed that led her to it and got her into the life. She has a very addictive personality and will admit to it.

Im the same way. Part of my decision to never use drugs and rarely drink is because I have such an addictive personality I know if I were to try it or use it constantly I might become hooked. Kinda like the track. I start itching anytime Im near one.

Whose to say that weed was what did it? Could it have been alcohol or nicotine?

Out of people that i know, the ones that do the hard drugs don't smoke weed. Sure, they did it when they were younger.. but they also smoked cigs (still do) and all of them drink (heavily). But they don't smoke weed at all. The people that I know that smoke weed.. only do that.. Some smoke cigs, some don't.. Not all drink either. So I don't really think there is a direct relation.

I think it just has to do with their personality. If weed wasn't there it would go - Cigs -> Beer -> then coke -> pills -> or whatever.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by The Chi

Are you hooked on illegal drugs and becoming a drain on society? If so, then yes, you are an idiot and a pain in the ass. If not, try not to take things so personally tinkerbell.

You cant guarantee that dude, you dont even know her. Talk about judging someone.

I can't guarantee it no, but there's a very high chance she'd had a Pepsi, a Tylenol, an Aspirin...and so on, before she ever even heard of Marijuana.

You didn't say "people who are addicted to and abuse illegal drugs are idiots." No, you said anyone who uses illegal drugs is an idiot. Pretty big difference.

I am in no way offended by anything you've said....um...Captain Hook?

[dubbs]

Big question is.. If the ban doesn't work (See alcohol prohibition)

Why ban it if people are going to continue doing it? All that results is overcrowded jails & wasted tax dollars, that's whats a drain on our society.

Ah, but then you start getting into the economics of it.. Jails are big business now.. They are privately owned and make a shit load on all of those drug offenders!

[goof2]

Originally Posted by dubbs

The thing is these prices are a result of the DEA taking HUGE amounts of the supply and it being illegal. Once there are huge fields of this shit, it will probably cost 2.50 for a pack of 20 joints.. then like a 4-5$ tax. Seems reasonable to me..

I'm sure it does seem reasonable, but don't hold your breath waiting for it. For perspective the tax rate you propose is right about in line with cigarette taxes. I envision significantly higher taxes for "drugs" justified by having to pay for additional rehab facilities and higher healthcare costs (ultimately good things) that the government will then spend on other things (not so good).

[the chi]

Originally Posted by dubbs

Whose to say that weed was what did it? Could it have been alcohol or nicotine?

Out of people that i know, the ones that do the hard drugs don't smoke weed. Sure, they did it when they were younger.. but they also smoked cigs (still do) and all of them drink (heavily). But they don't smoke weed at all. The people that I know that smoke weed.. only do that.. Some smoke cigs, some don't.. Not all drink either. So I don't really think there is a direct relation.

I think it just has to do with their personality. If weed wasn't there it would go - Cigs -> Beer -> then coke -> pills -> or whatever.

Ah, but theres the crux of the debate, who's to say for sure? Advocates against drugs of any kind say its weed, and are totally for banning it. Users say it isnt the gateway. Are there real figures on the stats for it, or just made up ones that either side uses to their own advantage?

Originally Posted by Kaneman

I can't guarantee it no, but there's a very high chance she'd had a Pepsi, a Tylenol, an Aspirin...and so on, before she ever even heard of Marijuana.

You didn't say "people who are addicted to and abuse illegal drugs are idiots." No, you said anyone who uses illegal drugs is an idiot. Pretty big difference.

I am in no way offended by anything you've said....um...Captain Hook?

Awesome, see you get it.

(But those you named arent illegal, and thats what we were discussing. As much as I hate to take anything, I will take tylenol from time to time myself.)

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by goof2

I'm sure it does seem reasonable, but don't hold your breath waiting for it. For perspective the tax rate you propose is right about in line with cigarette taxes. I envision significantly higher taxes for "drugs" justified by having to pay for additional rehab facilities and higher healthcare costs (ultimately good things) that the government will then spend on other things (not so good).

I don't see the taxation happening because I don't think its going to be legalized in our lifetime. I'll bet that even if California votes to legalize pot in November that the Federal Government won't allow it.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by The Chi

Awesome, see you get it.

(But those you named arent illegal, and thats what we were discussing. As much as I hate to take anything, I will take tylenol from time to time myself.)

No, I don't get it, what are you referring to? They may not be illegal, but they are lethal, synthetically composed narcotics, making them much more closely related to Heroin, Coke, etc. than Marijuana.

I'm able to see around the legal issues, because I understand fully how and why it became illegal in the first place therefore it's legal status becomes completely irrelevant. Especially in this conversation when you admit you break the law yourself.

[dubbs]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

I don't see the taxation happening because I don't think its going to be legalized in our lifetime. I'll bet that even if California votes to legalize pot in November that the Federal Government won't allow it.

Some form of legalization or decriminalization has to happen in the next few years.. Too many politicians are starting to realize how much money it could bring in to the state & fed. Also, the utter hypocrisy of the whole thing and the lying and what not..

[the chi]

I wasnt talking about you getting that part of it goober, I was talking about the Capt. Hook part.

Im not going to argue with you dude, Im trying to have a civil and interesting conversation, not get into a debate on whys or why someone else is wrong.

You are still however talking about LEGAL items, regardless of their content, they are still legal.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by dubbs

Some form of legalization or decriminalization has to happen in the next few years.. Too many politicians are starting to realize how much money it could bring in to the state & fed. Also, the utter hypocrisy of the whole thing and the lying and what not..

Yet the Federal Government is increasing it's financial support for the War on Drugs and specifically Marijuana. It was just announced yesterday that Marc Emery is to be extradited to the US to serve his 5 year prison sentence for selling seeds, which the US govt called a "major blow to the marijuana legalization movement." On top of that the DEA has resumed selective raids on state certified Marijuana dispensaries in CA and CO, despite Obama's pledge otherwise.

We've been here before. I've seen footage of Jimmy Carter, as President of the U.S., saying that pot should be legal...that was over two decades ago and its only gotten worse. Now even local police are using military tactics to fight the war against Marijuana.