Using throttle to control cornering arc?

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

It's incredible how many people on here, frequent riders, are arguing against one of the basic principles of riding. Increasing speed decreases turning radius?!?! That must be why we all slow down for turns, right?

The arguments about weight transfer to the front causing loss of traction only applies if you don't have good throttle control, which the technique assumes you have figured out. Tached posted up a technique everybody on this board should know. If you don't, you should learn it.

I read and have applied the techniques from twist of the wrist, and I find they work for me. A constant or increasing throttle through the turn will keep the suspension compressed, allowing it to keep the bike on a tight arc. Letting off the throttle, even in small amounts, allows the suspension to decompress, making the bike run a wider arc through the turn.

[OreoGaborio]

Karl, don't take this personally, but the sooner you realize that ONE BOOK isn't the be-all-end-all of motorcycle riding, the better off you'll be. I'm sure you realize this already, but you seem to be stuck in that mode.

See my prior post. Increasing or decreasing your speed can have EITHER EFFECT... there are far too many variables involved to discuss them effectively on a message board, but I will say this...

Done properly, decreasing speed will decrease your turning radius, all other things being equal and you don't upset the chassis.
Done IMPROPERLY, decreasing speed will increase your turning radius by standing the bike up, making you run wide.

Done properly, (ie, assuming the chassis is stable throughout the turn) increasing speed will increase your turning radius.
However if your chassis is for some reason a little unstable, increasing throttle position will stabilize it which can tighten up the turn.

So in reality, you're all right.... but you're also all stubbornly ignoring the other side of the argument... THUS brings me to why I believe OTB (and others) often give up trying to waste their time arguing on internet message boards, NOT because someone don't like their opinion, but because the other person is too damn ignorant of all the variables that can change the outcome of a given situation.

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by karl_1052

I read and have applied the techniques from twist of the wrist, and I find they work for me. A constant or increasing throttle through the turn will keep the suspension compressed, allowing it to keep the bike on a tight arc. Letting off the throttle, even in small amounts, allows the suspension to decompress, making the bike run a wider arc through the turn.

Wouldn't that same theory imply trail braking causes you to take a wider arc through a turn?

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

Wouldn't that same theory imply trail braking causes you to take a wider arc through a turn?

no, because it is still compressing the suspension, not releasing it.

good point Oreo.

[OreoGaborio]

Good point, but you're still arguing only one side of the story.

You said that letting off the throttle allows the suspension to decompress which makes the bike run wide.... but done smoothly, it can decompress the REAR more than the front as the weight transitions forward. This reduces rake and trail, makes the bike inherently less stable, thus more maneuverable and you can lean the bike easier as long as you keep your arms loose and don't transmit all that force onto the front end.

Turning radius is a function of lean angle and speed... reduce speed and as long as you can maintain chassis stability & lean angle, you're reducing the arc of the turn.

So again... it can have EITHER effect. It all depends on whether or not your inputs destabilize the bike & make it stand up & go wide.

[FT BSTRD]

One of the things I love a motorcycles and motorcycling is that even the most skilled rider doesn't really, with absolute certainty, understand WHY a motorcycle does what it does. Just the description behind the physics of turning a motorcycle provides enough engineering fodder to fill a book of debate.

Riding really is a mysterious art.

[No Worries]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

Karl, don't take this personally, but the sooner you realize that ONE BOOK isn't the be-all-end-all of motorcycle riding, the better off you'll be. I'm sure you realize this already, but you seem to be stuck in that mode.

All curves aren't the same either. Going up Golden Gate Canyon, the first curve is a broad, 50 mph sweeper. Less than a hundred feet later is a blind, decreasing-radius, 15 mph curve in the opposite direction. Guess how many cars and bikes cross the double yellow there? There was another one further up the canyon, but they blasted away the canyon walls to make it a 20 or 25 mph curve.

I don't know about curves where everyone else rides, but most of the curves on my roads only last three or four seconds. Then I'm setting up for the next curve. A second or two to downshift and apply the brakes before the curve, one second to lean and keep the brakes on until the apex, and one second to apply throttle out of the curve. Going uphill might be earlier throttle, and going downhill might be longer brake. But except for leaning off the bike and pushing on the inner handlebar, my brakes are what I use to control the cornering arc.

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by No Worries

my brakes are what I use to control the cornering arc.

I agree... that is, until you reach the apex, right?

and in this case, my definition of apex is the point at which you stop turning IN and start turning OUT.

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by karl_1052

no, because it is still compressing the suspension, not releasing it.

How do you figure light braking would affect the suspension differently than decreasing the throttle? Doesn't each transfer weight forward, loading the front forks and decompressing the rear (albeit a small amount)? Mind you, we're not talking about slamming the throttle closed, but subtle changes.

[FT BSTRD]

Originally Posted by fasternyou929

How do you figure light braking would affect the suspension differently than decreasing the throttle? Doesn't each transfer weight forward, loading the front forks and decompressing the rear (albeit a small amount)? Mind you, we're not talking about slamming the throttle closed, but subtle changes.

Wouldn't closing the throttle be characterized by decreasing the fast and braking be classified as increasing the slow?

Wouldn't braking have a more cumulative, greater impact on front suspension compression than just closing the throttle?