Bang!

[Twobanger]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Highlight the duty of medical professionals to report possibly dangerous issues.

Nothing is perfect but doing more, or at least doing something, is better than nothing. If nothing else, storage and inspection rules must be improved.

HIPAA would have to be modified or health care professionals would lose their ability to practice. Republicans have to stand firm on this. No bans without equal effort placed on identifying these people.

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Twobanger

HIPAA would have to be modified or health care professionals would lose their ability to practice. Republicans have to stand firm on this. No bans without equal effort placed on identifying these people.

They can report on someone if they believe they are a danger to themselves or others. I'm not sure that they have to, but they are certainly permitted to...

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Highlight the duty of medical professionals to report possibly dangerous issues.

Nothing is perfect but doing more, or at least doing something, is better than nothing. If nothing else, storage and inspection rules must be improved.

I believe doctors are required to report patients who pose an immediate threat to themselves or others. I also believe reporting anything beyond that is a violation of our medical privacy laws and would open the doctor up to administrative or legal penalties. Our system is set up such that unless someone is in front of a medical professional saying he/she is going to hurt themselves or others in the immediate future the duty that medical professional owes is to the privacy of the patient.

The patient is crazy? Can't say anything. The patient says they sometimes fantasize about mowing people down? Ask more questions but probably can't say anything. The patient says they are going to mow people down in a few days? That you can report. Regardless, my impression is most of the time if these people do talk about what they are going to do it is vague and not to medical professionals.

As far as storage and inspection goes there is a chance that may have helped in this case. That would heavily depend on the mother maintaining proper storage of the weapons outside of inspection periods and denying her son access to the weapons, something she apparently didn't feel was important. In most other cases though it would make zero difference at all. Two examples are the Aurora, CO and VA Tech shooters who were able to legally purchase their weapons, how they had them stored would have no effect.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by goof2

I believe doctors are required to report patients who pose an immediate threat to themselves or others. I also believe reporting anything beyond that is a violation of our medical privacy laws and would open the doctor up to administrative or legal penalties. Our system is set up such that unless someone is in front of a medical professional saying he/she is going to hurt themselves or others in the immediate future the duty that medical professional owes is to the privacy of the patient.

The patient is crazy? Can't say anything. The patient says they sometimes fantasize about mowing people down? Ask more questions but probably can't say anything. The patient says they are going to mow people down in a few days? That you can report. Regardless, my impression is most of the time if these people do talk about what they are going to do it is vague and not to medical professionals.

As far as storage and inspection goes there is a chance that may have helped in this case. That would heavily depend on the mother maintaining proper storage of the weapons outside of inspection periods and denying her son access to the weapons, something she apparently didn't feel was important. In most other cases though it would make zero difference at all. Two examples are the Aurora, CO and VA Tech shooters who were able to legally purchase their weapons, how they had them stored would have no effect.

Patient is a paranoid schizophrenic who refuses to take his meds? Report him.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Patient is a paranoid schizophrenic who refuses to take his meds? Report him.

Then lose your license and get prosecuted.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by goof2

Then lose your license and get prosecuted.

If anyone actually reports you.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

If anyone actually reports you.

You are talking about a mental health professional breaking the law by reporting something to the authorities that is in no way illegal, not in their purview to care about, and in most cases they are powerless to do anything about (involuntary commitment) in an attempt to remove an individual's constitutional right. In between the loony person and the authorities there is a pretty good chance someone will report you. Considering the number of nut jobs out there not taking their medication I would guess the chances are much greater the mental health professional gets reported compared to the loon in question actually trying to do anything.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by goof2

You are talking about a mental health professional breaking the law by reporting something to the authorities that is in no way illegal, not in their purview to care about, and in most cases they are powerless to do anything about (involuntary commitment) in an attempt to remove an individual's constitutional right. In between the loony person and the authorities there is a pretty good chance someone will report you. Considering the number of nut jobs out there not taking their medication I would guess the chances are much greater the mental health professional gets reported compared to the loon in question actually trying to do anything.

No, I'm talking about the reasonable expectation that when a potentially dangerous paranoid schizophrenic chooses to go off his meds, it gets reported to authorities.

[Amorok]

"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!" – President Theodore Roosevelt's last message to Congress.


“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state". Love your country, but never trust its government. - Robert A. Heinlein

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" - Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." - Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court

Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defence be the *real* object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands? - Patrick Henry, speech of June 9 1788

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. - Hitler, April 11 1942

And to answer the original question I would try to assess the situation and determine the best course of action. For me though, the best course of action could not include one where I allow, either through conscious action or lack of action, another to be harmed if there is a chance I could prevent it. So if I were in a general public arena where I was armed and the police were not present, it would be my responsibility to attempt to end the situation as soon and as safely as possible. If I were in a place like a school where I was not armed I would hope I would have the courage of those teachers in Connecticut to put myself in between an armed assailant and innocent children. That being said, the only school I could see myself in would be my kids school, and God help the psycho that endangers my kid. I may not have a gun, but I've got a maglite.

[Papa_Complex]

And yet modern reality tends to put the lie, or at least the serious question, to most of those quotes.