wow. local MSF inst. trying to pawn off zx-12r to a new rider

[neebelung]

Even if the rider could "handle" a big bike fresh out of the class, what about that ONE time they goose the throttle just a little too much, or grab just a little too much front brake -- the class teaches you the principles so that you know how to react, but real seat time is what hones these skills, and betters the odds that you'll react properly (and safely).

[pickle.of.doom]

The guy still has waaaaaaaaay better shot than someone with 0 experience, 0 MSf, hopping on a 600.

What are the reasons we tell noobs to not buy big bikes? What are they going to do?

Like you say, loop it, grab too much throttle, or brake. Isn't that what the BRC is all about? Basic motorcycle controls, like not grabbing way too much throttle or brakes?

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

The guy still has waaaaaaaaay better shot than someone with 0 experience, 0 MSf, hopping on a 600. AGREE

What are the reasons we tell noobs to not buy big bikes? What are they going to do?

Like you say, loop it, grab too much throttle, or brake. Isn't that what the BRC is all about? Basic motorcycle controls, like not grabbing way too much throttle or brakes?

IMO just cuz they pass the class doesn't mean they won't do it in real life.

lets take cornering, Slow, look, press, roll.......we hammer that in class. how many crash in corners in the real world? lots MSF or not, yes peeps w/ MSF exp. are less prone to crash, but nonetheless still crash in droves.........why would ham fisting or grabbing brake be any diff.

[neebelung]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Like you say, loop it, grab too much throttle, or brake. Isn't that what the BRC is all about? Basic motorcycle controls, like not grabbing way too much throttle or brakes?

Read my post above; yes, you learn the principles there, but let's face it - we've ALL done it (not loop it, but goosed it a bit too much or something). And yet it's our continued development as we ride more and more that hones those skills, IMO.

Sure the kid on the 12 who HAS taken the class might fare better than a total newb on a 600 who HASN'T, but that still doesn't mean the 12 is an appropriate "starter" bike.

[pickle.of.doom]

Why would crashing in a corner on a zx12r be an different than on an r6? The r6 would probably be carrying more corner speed....

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Why would crashing in a corner on a zx12r be an different than on an r6? The r6 would probably be carrying more corner speed....

at your level of riding YES, as a noob, they're still slow in the corners.

but your premise was that cuz they did it in class, the won't do it in the real world, NO?

[pickle.of.doom]

He may be a douchebag trying to make a sale.

He may have confidence in his skills as an MSF coach.

He may think the person has exceptional skill levels to handle it.

But odds are, you are probably right, he's probably just a douchebag trying to line his pockets.

But if you gave me the choice of taking along a rider with me that just finished MSF on his 12r or someone else who just bought a ZX6R, I think I would take the 12r kid.

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

The guy still has waaaaaaaaay better shot than someone with 0 experience, 0 MSf, hopping on a 600.

What are the reasons we tell noobs to not buy big bikes? What are they going to do?

Like you say, loop it, grab too much throttle, or brake. Isn't that what the BRC is all about? Basic motorcycle controls, like not grabbing way too much throttle or brakes?

All the teenage drivers in Camaros and Mustangs passed driver's education too, but guess how many of those cars die early with front end damage.

On your next commercial flight, do you want a guy that landed a couple simulated flights the previous weekend?

Proficiency can't be learned in a weekend. Yes, he'll be better off than someone that hasn't taken the course, but that's not saying much.

[fasternyou929]

Originally Posted by pickle.of.doom

Why would crashing in a corner on a zx12r be an different than on an r6? The r6 would probably be carrying more corner speed....

The difference is the "forgiveness" of the bike. A 600 will be much more forgiving if you botch throttle control, brake control, or a host of other things than a ZX-12 would be.

[pickle.of.doom]

Throttle will kick you off on either bike. The 12r with its extra weight and stability would actually be a better bike to fuck up the braking part on.