charge thieves w/ dog's death?

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by Looni2ns

The dog is a cop. Period. Perp kills cop in order to escape detection and flee. Perp pays.

These aren't your regular dogs. They're exceptional, and deserve every bit of respect that we give the two-legged officer. Lucky that he won't get the big shot.

And the boys in prison don't like perps who kill animals. Kinda like they don't like perps who mess w/kids. Guess he better be careful not to drop the soap. No sympathy here.

It's a dog...a trained dog, but a dog nontheless. The U.S. Constitution shouldn't afford the same rights to animals as it's citizens.

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

He only killed it because he was defending himself. I don't think he walked up to the dog or chased after the dog and stangled it.

So if he killed a cop in self defense that would be okay?

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by karl_1052

So if he killed a cop in self defense that would be okay?

Is a cop a dog?

And if the cop was unjust, then yes it should be justified.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by Tmall

Stupid law. If the policeman slips into traffic while he is giving you a ticket, should you be responsible?


Its a peril of the job.

The concept of "felony murder" isn't necessarily a stupid law. The concept is quite sound. If it could be foreseen that a particular crime MIGHT REASONABLY result in a death, and a death occurs during the commission of the crime, then the perpetrator is responsible for that death.

The example that is most frequently used is as follows: Two criminals rob a bank. During the course of that robbery, one of the thieves is shot and killed by a bank guard. By felony murder statutes, the surviving criminal is responsible for the death of his partner.

While a police dog is generally considered an officer for the purposes of crimes committed against it, and while flight from police is one of the crimes for which felony murder statutes apply in Florida, I doubt that this would survive a judges sniff test.

[karl_1052]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

The example that is most frequently used is as follows: Two criminals rob a bank. During the course of that robbery, one of the thieves is shot and killed by a bank guard. By felony murder statutes, the surviving criminal is responsible for the death of his partner.

Why would he be held responsible for murder. It was not premeditated by anyone. If anything the Bank Guard should get a raise, a handshake and a rolex, and the other robber should get an armed robbery charge.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by karl_1052

Why would he be held responsible for murder. It was not premeditated by anyone. If anything the Bank Guard should get a raise, a handshake and a rolex, and the other robber should get an armed robbery charge.

I think that I explained the theory pretty clearly. If a death could reasonably be expected in the sort of crime committed, and a death does occur, then felony murder applies. The intent is to act as a deterrent to the sort of crimes that are listed in the felony murder statute. For one thing, it removes a great deal of ambiguity.

Say you carjack some old fart Quebecois who is living in Florida and he has a heart attack. You may not have put a bullet in his head, but you're LEGALLY responsible for his death due to the felony murder statute. Under normal legal standards in other jurisdictions you MIGHT be held responsible, but with felony murder there is no question.

These are the crimes for which Second Degree Felony Murder applies in Florida:

Drug trafficking offenses prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
Arson,
Sexual battery,
Robbery,
Burglary,
Kidnapping,
Escape,
Aggravated child abuse,
Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
Aircraft piracy,
Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
Carjacking,
Home-invasion robbery,
Aggravated stalking,
Murder of another human being

This is the legal litmus test for Second Degree Felony Murder:

If a defendant commits a robbery and during the course of the robbery, either the defendant or an accomplice kills a victim, both the defendant and his accomplice could be charged with first degree felony murder. On the other hand, if a defendant commits a robbery and during the course of the robbery, the victim of the robbery shoots at the defendant but instead kills another person, the defendant could be charged with second degree felony murder. s. 782.04(3), F.S.

However, the “fact that an incidental death occurs in conjunction with a felony does not in itself make the perpetrator of the felony guilty of felony murder. In any felony murder conviction, the element of causation, i.e. that the homicide was committed in the perpetration of the felony, must be established.” Allen v. State, 690 So. 2d 1332, 1334 (Fla. 2d DCA 1997). Second degree felony murder is a first degree felony, punishable by up to life in prison. s. 782.04(3), F.S.

[RACER X]

Teen Talks About Police Dog's Death
By Lisa Baldwin

POSTED: Wednesday, December 30, 2009
UPDATED: 8:31 am CST December 30, 2009

HOUSTON -- A 15-year-old boy is speaking out after he and his brother were charged with killing a police dog, KPRC Local 2 reported Tuesday.

Bleck


WATCH IT: Teens Charged In Police Dog's Death

Harris County Precinct 4 deputy constables said their beloved K-9 deputy, Bleck, ran into a wooded area in north Harris County last week in pursuit of several burglary suspects.

Bleck was later found dead in the woods.

Investigators said they believe Cornelius Harrell, 17, choked Bleck to death.

Harrell and his brother, Cameron, 15, are suspected in several burglaries, and are both charged with interfering with a police service animal.

Cameron Harrell would not answer questions about any burglaries, but insisted that his brother was only protecting him for being attacked by the dog as they both hid in the woods.

"He was trying to help me," Cameron Harrell said. "He just grabbed … all I seen was he grabbed the dog and it started trying to bite him and he told me to run and keep running."

The constable's office released a statement saying that the department is deeply saddened by the loss. It said Bleck's death is traumatic and personal for his handler and Bleck placed himself in danger every time he was called to duty.

[Avatard]

The difference between a human cop, and a K9 Officer are that a real cop knows to stop at apprehending the suspect, and a dog will continue to attack a suspect (especially if the handler is nowhere in sight).

Ok, most Human cops when to stop.

Some of them?

A few?

Regardless, the dog doesn't stop until released by the handler. There may be something to the "self defense" argument.

[Papa_Complex]

Self defence would only apply if the teens were not involved in the robbery. If they were then they're screwed, and rightly so in my mind.

[RACER X]

Originally Posted by Avatard

The difference between a human cop, and a K9 Officer are that a real cop knows to stop at apprehending the suspect, and a dog will continue to attack a suspect (especially if the handler is nowhere in sight).

Ok, most Human cops when to stop.

Some of them?

A few?

Regardless, the dog doesn't stop until released by the handler. There may be something to the "self defense" argument.

actually i think once the dog has a hold he stays in the spot arm/leg/body part in mouth, now if perp keeps fighting, dog keeps on going till perp stops fighting and yes w/ dog latched onto arm.