Learning to Ride (Track vs Street)

[tached1000rr]

Trip you are pretty familiar with the good riding roads of East, TN and Western, NC. So I think you and I have the same frame of reference. Narrow lanes, gravel, traffic, road kill, blind corners etc....From most of my experiences those who are used to the track, will not push it on our type of roads the way we "locals" do. They are used to having much more room. I see it as a product of your environment, when it's what you had your teeth cut on, it seems natural to you. There is a point where one realizes the risk is too high to push it even further and then the track comes into play. Ok I'm rambling but.....

I agree with your thoughts...

[the chi]

But there are surprises on the track. Like I mentioned, riders crashing in front of you, others pulling out illegally on the track in front of you, crashes that leave debris, liquid and otherwise on the track...those are surprises along the lines of what you would have to deal with on the street as well. I stand by my statement, track riding can make you a better street rider. Riding track makes you more competent, and more readily able to ride your bike to your best ability which in turn makes you a better ride on the track and street.

(It can also ruin the street riding for you. )

I didnt address street riding for racing, but while you can be a tard on the street and treat it like the track, I dont believe its a decent sub for the track time.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by the chi

But there are surprises on the track. Like I mentioned, riders crashing in front of you, others pulling out illegally on the track in front of you, crashes that leave debris, liquid and otherwise on the track...those are surprises along the lines of what you would have to deal with on the street as well. I stand by my statement, track riding can make you a better street rider. Riding track makes you more competent, and more readily able to ride your bike to your best ability which in turn makes you a better ride on the track and street.

(It can also ruin the street riding for you. )

I didnt address street riding for racing, but while you can be a tard on the street and treat it like the track, I dont believe its a decent sub for the track time.

Surprises are supremely limited and few and far between at the track. That's why you can go 100% all the time.

You are still missing the point of the thread. What I am looking for here is the comparison. There are skills that transfer between the two, no doubt and it's completely obivious. Street riding can make you a better track rider. There is no question my time at the gap has made me decent at the track. Track riding can make you a better street rider cause you can go 100%.

I give up on trying to explain it, maybe someone will get where I am going with this thread.

[azoomm]

It is my belief that the majority of incidents are from the rider's reaction. If a rider understands what their motorcycle will do, or how to make their motorcycle perform, that reaction becomes more advanced - or, in many cases, learning to NOT react. Hearing a turtle, tar snake, squirrel, bumper, gravel made them crash - NOT reacting to many situations would make the rider better off. Repeated behavior and time with the motorcycle will make this more second nature, rather than it being a thought process. If you eliminate any possible outside distractions there is more focus on the performance rather than the reaction.

It isn't always about racing. It's usually about honing skills and learning how to make that motorcycle perform.

Nice thread

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by azoomm

It is my belief that the majority of incidents are from the rider's reaction. If a rider understands what their motorcycle will do, or how to make their motorcycle perform, that reaction becomes more advanced - or, in many cases, learning to NOT react. Hearing a turtle, tar snake, squirrel, bumper, gravel made them crash - NOT reacting to many situations would make the rider better off. Repeated behavior and time with the motorcycle will make this more second nature, rather than it being a thought process. If you eliminate any possible outside distractions there is more focus on the performance rather than the reaction.

It isn't always about racing. It's usually about honing skills and learning how to make that motorcycle perform.

Nice thread

Good points, esp when you can eliminate stuff like target fixation or chopping the throttle when the rear spins. I have had a few guys crash in front of me and I would always tell myself to look away and go where I want the bike to go. in th epast it would be more like wow look at that spectacular highside out in the grass followed by oh shit I am heading right for it now.

[Trip]

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by Trip

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

Come ride around midtown manhattan for a while that wiill teach ya few things

[derf]

Originally Posted by tommymac

Come ride around midtown manhattan for a while that wiill teach ya few things

I can tell you that riding in manahttan is nothing like the track, however the bike control and the ability to maneuver the bike around does translate from the track to the street. Really though while it will make you a better rider on the street, even in big cities and congestion, there is no replacement for just putting miles in on the street.

Dont even get me started on the msf course, that whole program is a load of BS except for someone trying to figure out which side is teh clutch

[the chi]

Originally Posted by Trip

Ok, here is where I am going to go with this. Yes, romping down a country road, I have no issues, however when I get on the interstate and try to maintain decent road control can get iffy (not talking about blasting through traffic/lane splitting and such, just normal everyday legal riding.) I don't have a lot of experience in riding in cities and busy roads. Basic skills like lane position and observing rules of the road is not my strong suit at all. These are just not lessons you learn at the track or up in the mountains. This is where I think a lot of track riders would be deficient when they tried to make the switch.

I dont think its about street versus track on these skills necessarily, but actually putting these skills to use to get the practice.

Basics like you mention are something taught in MSF and should be something you are aware of as a newbie and are not something you would learn at the track. An MSF booklet for your area would teach you the book learning, and getting out to some of the more metro areas would give you the practice you'd need.

[Trip]

Originally Posted by the chi

and getting out to some of the more metro areas would give you the practice you'd need.

So there's the answer. It's not something you learn at track.