Vicious Pit Bulls and Kitties don't mix...

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by shmike

Ten years later...

What the hell was that guy doing to that dog back there?!?!?!?!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Hey this is almost as much fun as arguing gun control with Amorok!!!

[Amber Lamps]

Hahaha! Dude, seriously? Did you just admit that Pits are responsible for 20% of all fatalities and aren't you the one that has repeatedly pointed out that "recently" the pitbull population has exploded? I'm old enough to remember when there wasn't any such dog as an American Pitbull Terrier. Or at least to my knowledge at the time. I also quoted the same chick and if you look at the more recent numbers and eliminate the decades where there were hardly any Pitbulls at all...well, I think you already know how it looks. Look at the numbers for the last decade for example. Shit, this is like proving that the AIDS scare is bullshit by pulling the number of AIDS related deaths from 1965-2005 and leveraging them against the number of total deaths from the same period.

Besides why do your numbers get to be facts and my numbers are false? Why are your sources so much more "non-biased"? Shit, most of that PDF is double-speech about how they can't make real statistical judgments... so that means neither of us are right. I mean, if they can't form accurate statistics that prove Pits are more dangerous, then they can't form stats that prove they aren't. So I guess that you win and all the stories about Pit Bulls attacking people and other dogs are complete bullshit! Btw my gf had a point, she watches Milan all the time, have you ever seen an episode where he goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull? I haven't.

[Kaneman]

Because my sources are respected professionals from the canine community and yours were not anywhere close to it. Given the population of PB's, the power they wield, the type of owner they attract etc I believe 15-20% is a much closer number than your 50%+. There are also numerous links backing up the extensive research of the sources I quoted.

I never said there wasn't a Pit Bull problem, there is indeed a very large Pit Bull problem...I just don't believe it lies in the dog's genetic makeup. I never said Pit Bulls weren't capable of killing humans. I said the numbers have been greatly exaggerated and the whole story isn't being told.

Yes, I have seen many episodes of the Dog Whisperer where Cesar "goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull" Milan also owns numerous Pit Bulls including the old one "Daddy" that used to be Redman's dog. Daddy is personal protection trained BTW.

Consider:
My study of fatal attacks occurring over the past five decades has identified the poor ownership/management practices involved in the overwhelming majority of these incidents: owners obtaining dogs, and maintaining them as resident dogs outside of the household for purposes other than as family pets (i.e. guarding/ protection, fighting, intimidation/status); owners failing to humanely contain, control and maintain their dogs (chained dogs, loose roaming dogs, cases of abuse/neglect); owners failing to knowledgably supervise interaction between children and dogs; and owners failing to spay or neuter resident dogs not used for competition, show, or in a responsible breeding program.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ncrc-research/

And from the CDC:
Dr. Randall Lockwood, one of the authors of the CDC’s “Breeds of Dogs,” as well as a member of the AVMA Task Force, submitted an affidavit in 2007 in opposition to the breed ban currently in effect in Denver, Colorado. He stated, in part: “Focusing on a single breed as the ‘source’ of the dog bite problem reflects a 19th century epidemiological mindset that attempts to identify the vector of a public health problem and eliminate that vector. . . The dog bite problem is not a disease problem with a single vector, it is a complex societal issue that must address a wide range of human behaviors in ways that deal with irresponsible behavior that puts people and animals at risk.”

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Because my sources are respected professionals from the canine community and yours were not anywhere close to it. Given the population of PB's, the power they wield, the type of owner they attract etc I believe 15-20% is a much closer number than your 50%+. There are also numerous links backing up the extensive research of the sources I quoted.

I never said there wasn't a Pit Bull problem, there is indeed a very large Pit Bull problem...I just don't believe it lies in the dog's genetic makeup. I never said Pit Bulls weren't capable of killing humans. I said the numbers have been greatly exaggerated and the whole story isn't being told.

Yes, I have seen many episodes of the Dog Whisperer where Cesar "goes up against an aggressive Pit Bull" Milan also owns numerous Pit Bulls including the old one "Daddy" that used to be Redman's dog. Daddy is personal protection trained BTW.

Consider:
My study of fatal attacks occurring over the past five decades has identified the poor ownership/management practices involved in the overwhelming majority of these incidents: owners obtaining dogs, and maintaining them as resident dogs outside of the household for purposes other than as family pets (i.e. guarding/ protection, fighting, intimidation/status); owners failing to humanely contain, control and maintain their dogs (chained dogs, loose roaming dogs, cases of abuse/neglect); owners failing to knowledgably supervise interaction between children and dogs; and owners failing to spay or neuter resident dogs not used for competition, show, or in a responsible breeding program.
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/ncrc-research/

And from the CDC:
Dr. Randall Lockwood, one of the authors of the CDC’s “Breeds of Dogs,” as well as a member of the AVMA Task Force, submitted an affidavit in 2007 in opposition to the breed ban currently in effect in Denver, Colorado. He stated, in part: “Focusing on a single breed as the ‘source’ of the dog bite problem reflects a 19th century epidemiological mindset that attempts to identify the vector of a public health problem and eliminate that vector. . . The dog bite problem is not a disease problem with a single vector, it is a complex societal issue that must address a wide range of human behaviors in ways that deal with irresponsible behavior that puts people and animals at risk.”

You're going to totally ignore my point about there being few Pits from 1965-1985+ which makes her numbers stoopid! I don't disagree that it's not all the dog's fault but if the same crappy owner gets a Golden Retriever instead of a Pit Bull... I've said repeatedly that we people are terrible pet owners and "pack leaders", I totally agree! I still believe that if the crappy owner gets a GR vs a PB, the PB is far more likely to attack someone and if it does attack, it is far more likely to do serious damage and possibly kill someone. Go back to your stats and find out that there are or at least were far more GRs in the US than any other dog and see how many fatal attacks were carried out by GRs. Are there any?

Back when I was a kid, Dobermans and German Shepherds were the mean dogs. In fact if you check the numbers from 1965-1985 for which dogs were the dog bite kings, I bet it's one of these two! Then Rots got popular and finally Pits.

Facts are going to be facts, no matter if you like it or not. Shit, if you really want to prove that Pits aren't biters, why not go back to the 1800s? Why not post the dog bite numbers from Alaska to prove that Huskies are more dangerous? Colorado? Iowa? Could you have found smaller towns? What would the dog bite number reduction be in LA if all of the Pits/ Rots were eliminated?

[Kaneman]

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore a Tigoint. APBT's are a very old breed of dog and have been popular in America since long before you were born....they just didn't used to get a lot of media coverage as they do now. In fact, the most decorated war dog in World War 1 was a Pit Bull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

I strongly disagree that a poorly treated or chained German Shepherd is "far more unlikely" to bite someone than a Pit Bull and believe I have shown evidence backed up by strong research that proves that point. Chaining and abusing all dogs can turn them into people biters.

I don't have the bite numbers from LA...but I provided info that shows in at least two cities breed bans had no effect on bite numbers. Again, bite statistics are incredibly unreliable for reasons provided in my previous post and therefore not a clear indicator of reality.

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore a Tigoint. APBT's are a very old breed of dog and have been popular in America since long before you were born....they just didn't used to get a lot of media coverage as they do now. In fact, the most decorated war dog in World War 1 was a Pit Bull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

I strongly disagree that a poorly treated or chained German Shepherd is "far more unlikely" to bite someone than a Pit Bull and believe I have shown evidence backed up by strong research that proves that point. Chaining and abusing all dogs can turn them into people biters.

I don't have the bite numbers from LA...but I provided info that shows in at least two cities breed bans had no effect on bite numbers. Again, bite statistics are incredibly unreliable for reasons provided in my previous post and therefore not a clear indicator of reality.

So why do you get to use them? Oh and I said Golden Retrievers not German Shepherds. I never said that pits didn't exist, they did in ENGLAND! I don't know when they were first brought here or became APBTs. They were first bred as, hmm fighting dogs in the early 1900s. Oh and now YOU are going to mis-identify a bull-terrier mix as an American Pitbull Terrier?

HEY!!! APBT aren't even a recognized breed!!! No wonder that can't keep good records of their bites... they don't fucking exist as a breed! I'm looking at the AKC page and it hits me! Duh!

[Amber Lamps]

Hey you win, how can a breed that doesn't exist be dangerous?!?!?! There's a bunch mutts out attacking people but whatever they are, they aren't APBT because that breed does not exist. I may as well be arguing that DRAGONS are dangerous!

[Ninjakel]

They are UKC

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by TIGGER

So why do you get to use them? Oh and I said Golden Retrievers not German Shepherds. I never said that pits didn't exist, they did in ENGLAND! I don't know when they were first brought here or became APBTs. They were first bred as, hmm fighting dogs in the early 1900s. Oh and now YOU are going to mis-identify a bull-terrier mix as an American Pitbull Terrier?

HEY!!! APBT aren't even a recognized breed!!! No wonder that can't keep good records of their bites... they don't fucking exist as a breed! I'm looking at the AKC page and it hits me! Duh!

Nice fact checking, Ace.