War on Drugs: Officially a Failure.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

It would simply not be possible for companies to staff themselves eventually as more people turned from Alcohol to Marijuana. There would also be tremendous public pressure to end a practice who's sole purpose is to detect Marijuana in a society where it is legal and accepted.

Alcohol is legal and accepted in our society. Accidentally hurt yourself or others at work and see how far that acceptance gets you if you test positive for it.

Where is this public pressure going to come from? All "the public" has to do is imagine one of the mechanics for the plane they will board, someone who does Trip's job, or even the forklift driver at Costco trying to do their job while baked and that "tremendous public pressure" becomes a fantasy. If weed worked like alcohol where a person only tests positive when they are under the influence of the drug it would be a different story, but I haven't heard of the existence of a test like that. That being the case the assumption will be if you test positive you are under the influence. I think you are dreaming.

[Kaneman]

You may well be correct goof, as to what would actually happen in a reality situation, no doubt.

The difference though, from a "fairness" stand point, is that alcohol can't be detected after a couple of days and Marijuana can 30-90 days...or even longer with a hair test. So companies could be forced to fire valuable employees who had an accident while NOT under the influence of marijuana, yet still tested positive.

[defector]

Three pages in, and it dawns on me. Out of EVERYTHING I have ever seen regarding the "war on drugs" or the legalization of marijuana - never have I seen or heard any intelligent thought out responses for the positives of it.
Except on the internet....

What do you see on the news when this comes up? Either a 60 something burnout mumbling about it, or some baked college kid giggling at the camera.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by defector

Three pages in, and it dawns on me. Out of EVERYTHING I have ever seen regarding the "war on drugs" or the legalization of marijuana - never have I seen or heard any intelligent thought out responses for the positives of it.
Except on the internet....

What do you see on the news when this comes up? Either a 60 something burnout mumbling about it, or some baked college kid giggling at the camera.

Its not an accident either, as media fueled the initial hysteria regarding the "Devil Weed" in an organized effort aimed at irradiation.

-"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

-Harry Anslinger, first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. This was a quote during a 1938 testimoney to Congress.

Insane lies that Marijuana kills, turns good people into rapists, and turns women into whores were given a racist overtone in an effort to convince a largely racist white public what a menace this plant was. Cannabis and Hemp were subsequently outlawed and TO THIS DAY people still believe some of the original propaganda. Based on this racist and dishonest laws millions of Americans have been jailed and tortured and some have even been killed in the enforcement of them.

[Kaneman]

Do not think that we have somehow advanced past this type of propaganda or that it's so out there it could never work. The same tactics have been used for years and continue to be used today. The ironies here are of course that A) The Government created the black market and drug cartels and B) That many MANY legal items we covet such as bananas, coffee and diamonds can also be associated with murder, enslavement and genocide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nvm7z6XwHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kzn55hjPG4&NR=1

[defector]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Its not an accident either, as media fueled the initial hysteria regarding the "Devil Weed" in an organized effort aimed at irradiation.

-"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

-Harry Anslinger, first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. This was a quote during a 1938 testimoney to Congress.

Insane lies that Marijuana kills, turns good people into rapists, and turns women into whores were given a racist overtone in an effort to convince a largely racist white public what a menace this plant was.

Reefer Madness...

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

You may well be correct goof, as to what would actually happen in a reality situation, no doubt.

The difference though, from a "fairness" stand point, is that alcohol can't be detected after a couple of days and Marijuana can 30-90 days...or even longer with a hair test. So companies could be forced to fire valuable employees who had an accident while NOT under the influence of marijuana, yet still tested positive.

That is exactly my point and issue really isn't getting fired, though that is an issue. The bigger problem is a person having an accident at work with no way to demonstrate they weren't under the influence of drugs at the time. Bye bye benefits, private disability, and workers comp. Look at it from the other side, if you were in the insurance business would you write any kind of policy for a company where employees are allowed to do their jobs under the influence? I sure as shit wouldn't.

[Kaneman]

Originally Posted by goof2

That is exactly my point and issue really isn't getting fired, though that is an issue. The bigger problem is a person having an accident at work with no way to demonstrate they weren't under the influence of drugs at the time. Bye bye benefits, private disability, and workers comp. Look at it from the other side, if you were in the insurance business would you write any kind of policy for a company where employees are allowed to do their jobs under the influence? I sure as shit wouldn't.

Yes I would, and I believe Progressive Insurance would work to set an industry standard in that regard, or to some degree as their Chairman of the Board and former CEO, Peter Lewis, is a huge Marijuana legalization advocate and has donated millions to the cause.

This debate is heating up as more states take up the issue of what to do with Medical Marijuana users. One recent case I read involves a hospital not willing to do a kidney transplant until the patient agrees to stop using MMJ.

I believe that IF the country goes on a path to legalization these issues will work themselves out in a fair manner as the truths come out and began to be accepted as everyday fact and not controversial.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

And Chi, while I completely understand and respect why you or anyone would not want to use substances that chemically alter their mind, this still affects everyone who is an American citizen because of what the prohibition does to us as a country and how it contributes to a Police State mentality with trampled civil liberties that is all funded by tax dollars.

/thread

[goof2]

Originally Posted by Kaneman

Its not an accident either, as media fueled the initial hysteria regarding the "Devil Weed" in an organized effort aimed at irradiation.

-"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

-Harry Anslinger, first commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. This was a quote during a 1938 testimoney to Congress.

Insane lies that Marijuana kills, turns good people into rapists, and turns women into whores were given a racist overtone in an effort to convince a largely racist white public what a menace this plant was. Cannabis and Hemp were subsequently outlawed and TO THIS DAY people still believe some of the original propaganda. Based on this racist and dishonest laws millions of Americans have been jailed and tortured and some have even been killed in the enforcement of them.

Throughout this thread you have advocated for the legalization of marijuana. It doesn't bother me if it is legalized and didn't before this thread started. The question that remains, and one that was asked earlier by someone else but I don't think you answered, is do you support legalizing all drugs? Without legalizing them all scant few of the issues brought up in your first post to start this thread are dealt with. "The War on Drugs" continues with little change.