HD upgrade to liquid...

[Cutty72]

Ok, so there is no hijack to the POTM thread, I started a new one. Besides, this site has been SLOW so we need some action.

Originally Posted by CasterTroy

The 19" front wheel changes everything (looks)

The new cam in the 103 makes a massive difference. It was MUCH stronger than the '13 SG and the breakout I also rode.

I'd have one if they were priced like they SHOULD be ($13k not $23k OTD) But I've been to YORK and toured the plant. Saw the workers for 1/2 a shift. Dear GOD those bastards get more breaks and work slower than detroits economy! So I can see why they cost so much to make


Needs a drivers backrest and it'd be the perfect coast to coast hiway bike. Wasn't BAD on the backroads, but if we're on 2 lane I'd take my old RT1150R all day long

But if you're THAT KINDA GUY and have the money to spend $17k+.....then you'd be a fool to buy ANYTHING BUT a '14 to get that motor

Anyone know more on this?
I do agree that the price tag is quite hefty. Sub $20k would be nice, and I don't mean $19,999 either...

[OneSickPsycho]

I read about it in one of the cycle mags... apparently it adds 5% to the power curve, but more importantly keeps the rider cooler and improves response in hot weather...

[CasterTroy]

From what I understand (and take this as what I've HEARD...not as fact...I'm sure Paul could dig long enough and find HARD facts), there's MANY reason for going this route.

Harley (corporate) couldn't mfg an engine like the 103 and torque it up for '14 with the bigger cam and put it under the cover of the ultra without doing SOMETHING.

They were already getting grief from ultra buyers when they went to the 96 because of heat. That's when they started installing electric fans to cool the back cylinder.

ALSO...in a unrelated note. The EPA has targeted Harley and their air cooled motors for quite some time. Air cooled motors run hotter and produce more pollutants. The intro of the V-rod was supposed to give them a stay of execution by having a water cooled bike in their lineup but as terrible sellers, they can't constitute enough sales to bring the averages up to what the EPA's requirements will be in the coming years (anyone seen that Aston Martin "smart car"? Kinda the same deal but with cars it's fuel efficiency)

apparently Harley is trying to slowly work their way into introducing WATER to their big sellers.

I would guess (speculate) that we'll see more than 50% of the models go total water cooled in the next few years.

[OneSickPsycho]

I heard a lot of the decision was based on owner feedback...

[Gas Man]

You guys are almost there on the proper mentality, but kinda off base. I am a current owner and on the owners feedback board.

Are they working toward liquid cooled? Sure.

What people don't get about HD is simple. Could HD engineers design a goldwing or BMW style touring bike? Certainly. Would that alienate the core customer base? Most definitely. They must not alienate that core base. They have done all their upgrades in technology in small steps and have done very well with it. This last step in technology was big, but they needed it. They had too many other brands hunting their customers. They have even done some firsts in the MC world. With the addition of blue tooth, built in gps, touchscreen, voice command, etc... they have taken their stake back towards the top.

So in this step, they introduce liquid cooling but only to the exhaust port. They have done a brilliant job with it, the design in the lower fairing is better than anything I have seen to date. The radiator between the downtubes, like most other metrics, passes tons of heat to the rider. My brothers Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager is a perfect example. It is liquid cooled and way way hotter to the rider than my HD.

I can keep going on.... but honestly I probably have wasted too much time on this... it's falling on deaf ears.

[derf]

I took one out for a test ride yesterday and was thoroughly impressed. The bike seems to be much more refined than previous models, less vibration and much better heat management. Whatever heat is produced by the engine is certainly not channelled to the rider, and even the radiators vent away from you pretty good. Its still a pig in the corners, and the suspension isnt anything near great. The brakes are much improved over previous generations, and the ABS works alought it comes on rather abruptly and is very intrusive. My biggest gripe with it is the infotainment center and its controls. There is nothing intuitive with the controls. On a gold wing I was able to figure out how to work everything within 5 minutes, but the harley system just confused me, I kept pressing the joysticks the wrong direction. Also the screen controls are sluggish and require too much pressure, and are hard to reach while riding. The GPS also surprised me that I could only manage to input a few waypoints before it deleted the first one.

The biggest positive improvement is in the luggage and its controls/opening and closing mechanism. Its actually easy now.

[marko138]

Originally Posted by Gas Man

You guys are almost there on the proper mentality, but kinda off base. I am a current owner and on the owners feedback board.

Are they working toward liquid cooled? Sure.

What people don't get about HD is simple. Could HD engineers design a goldwing or BMW style touring bike? Certainly. Would that alienate the core customer base? Most definitely. They must not alienate that core base. They have done all their upgrades in technology in small steps and have done very well with it. This last step in technology was big, but they needed it. They had too many other brands hunting their customers. They have even done some firsts in the MC world. With the addition of blue tooth, built in gps, touchscreen, voice command, etc... they have taken their stake back towards the top.

So in this step, they introduce liquid cooling but only to the exhaust port. They have done a brilliant job with it, the design in the lower fairing is better than anything I have seen to date. The radiator between the downtubes, like most other metrics, passes tons of heat to the rider. My brothers Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager is a perfect example. It is liquid cooled and way way hotter to the rider than my HD.

I can keep going on.... but honestly I probably have wasted too much time on this... it's falling on deaf ears.

There was a decent article in Cycle World.

[No Worries]

Originally Posted by marko138

There was a decent article in Cycle World.

It's in the November issue. I read in the Cycle World article that the most common complaint of the core customer base was "beard lift." So they went into a wind tunnel with strapped-on beards and tweaked the fairing to minimize beard lift.

Maybe I inhaled too much two-stroke fumes in the Seventies, but for the price of the Harley ($22.5K) I could buy a half dozen very enjoyable motorcycles off Craig's List. Plus, only 76 HP out of 1,700cc's? And that 818 pounds, holy crap that's pretty heavy for 76HP. None of the core complained about the price, weight or HP? Just that water-cooling might spoil the look? Am I the only one who thinks the Harley name is more important than the look?

[CasterTroy]

Originally Posted by No Worries

Am I the only one who thinks the Harley name is more important than the look?

Nope

I'm not a hater. But I recognize what a VALUE is and ISN'T.

You don't buy a range rover for longevity and reliability. You buy it for the look and prestige it brings regardless of Clarkson saying it's the best offroader in the world

You don't buy a (NEW) Harley for the power, reliability (I've actually heard an argument at a Harley dealer bashing other brands because they didn't have dealerships in every city and they wouldn't "trust" a foreign bike because there wasn't a dealer on their route) or handling. You buy it for the name, for comfort (damn they are comfy on long superslabs...but SUCK at low speed or traffic) and to buy into a lifestyle.

Of course those stigma's really don't apply in the used market. I mean..having ridden a 2014, I could ALMOST be suckered into buying one instead of a USED street glide. I mean ALL you get with the 2014 compared to a 2013 is really appealing, and you're easily lured in by the sirens.....but once you step off the lot and realize it's $23k for a (NEW) street glide.... when you can find some OTHER sap who's obviously hypnotized by the sirens singing the 2014 praises and would do anything to rid himself of his 2010...nabbing THAT for $10k is in fact a decent value.

The older the better the value, because lets be honest...despite the introduction of PARTIAL water cooling, were still dealing with essentially 1953 technology. So picking up a 10+ yr old Ultra for under $7k IS in fact a good value. But $23k for a new one? Well...you're paying for York Penn Union labor. And having toured that plant twice, I saw the workers taking more breaks than working in a 2 hr span, that's for sure. THAT'S what you're paying for! Not quality/performance/handling/innovation. You're paying for UNION DUES

[derf]

Originally Posted by CasterTroy

The older the better the value, because lets be honest...despite the introduction of PARTIAL water cooling, were still dealing with essentially 1953 technology. So picking up a 10+ yr old Ultra for under $7k IS in fact a good value. But $23k for a new one? Well...you're paying for York Penn Union labor. And having toured that plant twice, I saw the workers taking more breaks than working in a 2 hr span, that's for sure. THAT'S what you're paying for! Not quality/performance/handling/innovation. You're paying for UNION DUES

Thats why I wound up with a 99 electra glide classic for $5k