Marine Scout Snipers and the "Nazi" symbol

fatbuckRTO · 02-10-2012, 10:31 AM

For anyone who has read the story (I refuse to link to that garbage the AP is trying to pass off as a legitimate news article), bear this in mind:

Marine Corps Scout Snipers have used a double lightning bolt "SS" as their unofficial symbol for decades. For them is has nothing to do with Nazi Germany. And, as much as the press wants to use this note as a further indictment of the Marine Corps, most of those snipers who embraced their "SS" symbol probably had no idea it was a symbol of the Schutzstaffel. Blah blah blah, "dumb Marine" comments aside, I'm willing to bet 75-80% of the American public (and 90% of the world) doesn't know that the Nazi SS used that symbol.

When I was stationed on MCB Hawaii in the late nineties, the snipers there had the "SS" on their T-shirt. The base commander learned of it and ordered them to cover it with duct tape if they wanted to continue to wear the shirt. There is a reason groups like scout snipers stick to their symbols despite opposition. It represents a history of honorable and effective service for them as a group, and individually it represents a culmination of more effort and hard work than most people can even conceive. Ask any Ranger who served from the 70's to the 90's what they think about their black berets and being forced to share them with the entire Army now. I don't know how the Scout Sniper "SS" came about, or exactly when, but I know what response you'd get if you asked a Marine sniper to give it up.

Now, after seeing a photo of some Marines from 2010, who have done more to defend this country than than over 99% of us, Jewish groups want "heads to roll." Ironic. So do the Muslim fanatics those snipers are fighting.

/soap box

azoomm · 02-10-2012, 10:44 AM

I remember when the black berets were made Army wide because some asshole that was not involved directly didn't want feelings to get hurt. If they would have talked to anyone actually IN the Army at the time they might have come to understand all ranks respected the fact that the berets were EARNED and not gifted.

I think too many people in this world believe themselves to be important when they actually aren't.

This Jewish group is fits into that group of people that believe to be more important than they are. They are trying to show someone how their being butt-hurt is a bigger deal than the history of this honorable group. Especially a group that has probably done more for their freedom than any other in existence.

What a bunch of ignorant jerks.

pauldun170 · 02-10-2012, 11:20 AM

I'm part of the % that knows about the SS's history in Europe.
I'm not Jewish nor am I all "hide the children" about this.

Having said that...
The design used in the photo is extremely similar to that used by the Nazi SS.
I would think that any military organization having been informed of how fucked up the SS was and how shitty of an organization they really were would be embarrassed to be affiliated with it.
"But its Tradition!!!"

I think what needs to happen is that some LGBT organization needs to adopt the "SS" in some sort of symbol.
Lets see how long Marine snipers embrace the tradition of "SS" symbols.

As for the incident itself. Let it go.
No need to do anything beside a general "Knock that shit off...this shit is generating paperwork I don't have time to do"

fatbuckRTO · 02-10-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Having said that...
The design used in the photo is extremely similar to that used by the Nazi SS.
I would think that any military organization having been informed of how fucked up the SS was and how shitty of an organization they really were would be embarrassed to be affiliated with it.
"But its Tradition!!!"

I think what needs to happen is that some LGBT organization needs to adopt the "SS" in some sort of symbol.
Lets see how long Marine snipers embrace the tradition of "SS" symbols.

Officially, the Marine Corps has banned its use on numerous individual occasions. To my knowledge there is not a general standing order preventing Scout Snipers from associating with the "SS" symbol. This photo, like so many others, was probably intended for private use among the members of that unit, before some chucklehead put it up on the internet. There's always one...

I can understand your opinion, but you may or may not have seen first hand how jealously military units guard their symbols. That said, there are probably hundreds of US military units that have symbols similar to the Waffen SS's Totenkopf (my team in Afghanistan was one, we even have pictures with a Jolly Roger flag). Hell, Navy crows look just like some of the Nazi eagles, minus the swastika. The Army marksmanship badge is a damn Iron Cross. America didn't wipe the eagle off its quarters (until the mint started that dumbass state quarter program). We decided that our use of those symbols supercedes the Nazis, that they were our symbols even though Nazis used them too. So did Marine Scout Snipers.

pauldun170 · 02-10-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

I can understand your opinion, but you may or may not have seen first hand how jealously military units guard their symbols.

I've seen it, I've heard the gripes and the history etc etc.

It really has nothing to do with "military"
Its more of a general human thing.

RACER X · 02-10-2012, 11:27 AM

pic of the "SS"?

when did the current layout of that symbol come into effect?

jtemple · 02-10-2012, 12:43 PM

I know about the Schutzstaffel; my grandmother survived the Holocaust.

I'm kind of on the fence about the SS symbol usage. To me, the intent is what matters. I don't give two shits about two jagged letters.

Trip · 02-10-2012, 01:00 PM

Doesn't bother me either way, but the SS was a vicious group and wanting to wear a logo similar to it is too much for a government entity.

Atheists and other groups are basically doing the same thing removing ten commandments and other religious logos/symbols from government entities.

Basically this country does not tolerate people getting butt hurt anymore. If you butt hurt someone, you must change whatever you are doing.

Papa_Complex · 02-10-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip

Doesn't bother me either way, but the SS was a vicious group and wanting to wear a logo similar to it is too much for a government entity.

Atheists and other groups are basically doing the same thing removing ten commandments and other religious logos/symbols from government entities.

Basically this country does not tolerate people getting butt hurt anymore. If you butt hurt someone, you must change whatever you are doing.

The question becomes, "Which symbol came first?" If it's the double SS "sieg sieg" then its use should go, no matter what the "heritage" of it is for the snipers. If they've been using it since the 1800s, then that's a different story.

Then again the swastika has been around for millennia, in dozens of disparate cultures. From the late 1800s up to WWII it was found on popular items, as a pseudo mystical symbol. There are tons of lighters, rings, money clips, you name it from England, Scotland, Ireland, France.... bearing that symbol. Now it has just one meaning, in popular culture.

On the other hand, the "Biblification" of America is a fairly recent thing. "In God We Trust" wasn't on money for almost a hundred years, after the nation was founded. "One nation, under God" wasn't in the Pledge of Allegiance, until the mid-1950s.

Not exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind, for your country.

Trip · 02-10-2012, 03:09 PM

Swastika backwards is still used all over India. It was used way way way way before the Nazis.

I would put money on the sniper scout symbol not being that old, you want to know why.....wait for it.....

Ironically, they are jews.

02-10-2012, 10:31 AM	#1
fatbuckRTO This is not the sig line. Join Date: Dec 2008 Moto: Be prepared. What? Oh, moto... Posts: 1,279	Marine Scout Snipers and the "Nazi" symbol For anyone who has read the story (I refuse to link to that garbage the AP is trying to pass off as a legitimate news article), bear this in mind: Marine Corps Scout Snipers have used a double lightning bolt "SS" as their unofficial symbol for decades. For them is has nothing to do with Nazi Germany. And, as much as the press wants to use this note as a further indictment of the Marine Corps, most of those snipers who embraced their "SS" symbol probably had no idea it was a symbol of the Schutzstaffel. Blah blah blah, "dumb Marine" comments aside, I'm willing to bet 75-80% of the American public (and 90% of the world) doesn't know that the Nazi SS used that symbol. When I was stationed on MCB Hawaii in the late nineties, the snipers there had the "SS" on their T-shirt. The base commander learned of it and ordered them to cover it with duct tape if they wanted to continue to wear the shirt. There is a reason groups like scout snipers stick to their symbols despite opposition. It represents a history of honorable and effective service for them as a group, and individually it represents a culmination of more effort and hard work than most people can even conceive. Ask any Ranger who served from the 70's to the 90's what they think about their black berets and being forced to share them with the entire Army now. I don't know how the Scout Sniper "SS" came about, or exactly when, but I know what response you'd get if you asked a Marine sniper to give it up. Now, after seeing a photo of some Marines from 2010, who have done more to defend this country than than over 99% of us, Jewish groups want "heads to roll." Ironic. So do the Muslim fanatics those snipers are fighting. /soap box __________________ This was no time for half measures. He was a captain, godsdammit. An officer. Things like this didn't present a problem for an officer. Officers had a tried and tested way of solving problems like this. It was called a sergeant. -Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!

02-10-2012, 10:44 AM	#2
azoomm moderator chick Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hill Country TX Moto: Pasta Rockets Posts: 8,917	I remember when the black berets were made Army wide because some asshole that was not involved directly didn't want feelings to get hurt. If they would have talked to anyone actually IN the Army at the time they might have come to understand all ranks respected the fact that the berets were EARNED and not gifted. I think too many people in this world believe themselves to be important when they actually aren't. This Jewish group is fits into that group of people that believe to be more important than they are. They are trying to show someone how their being butt-hurt is a bigger deal than the history of this honorable group. Especially a group that has probably done more for their freedom than any other in existence. What a bunch of ignorant jerks. __________________ We have enough youth. How about a fountain of "smart"? Come Play at the Track!! http://www.elitetrackdays.com

02-10-2012, 11:27 AM	#6
RACER X AMA Supersport Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond, Tx Moto: '10 Tuono Factory Posts: 4,569	pic of the "SS"? when did the current layout of that symbol come into effect? __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ 2014 GROM! 181cc of FURY 2010 Aprilia Tuono Factory - SOLD 2009 SFV Gladius - SOLD 2008 Hayabusa - SOLD.

02-10-2012, 12:43 PM	#7
jtemple Geek Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Papillion, Nebraska Moto: 2011 Husqvarna TE630 Posts: 1,437	I know about the Schutzstaffel; my grandmother survived the Holocaust. I'm kind of on the fence about the SS symbol usage. To me, the intent is what matters. I don't give two shits about two jagged letters.

02-10-2012, 01:00 PM	#8
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	Doesn't bother me either way, but the SS was a vicious group and wanting to wear a logo similar to it is too much for a government entity. Atheists and other groups are basically doing the same thing removing ten commandments and other religious logos/symbols from government entities. Basically this country does not tolerate people getting butt hurt anymore. If you butt hurt someone, you must change whatever you are doing.

02-10-2012, 03:09 PM	#10
Trip Hold mah beer! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: 80 Miles South of Moto Heaven Moto: 08 R1200GS Posts: 23,268	Swastika backwards is still used all over India. It was used way way way way before the Nazis. I would put money on the sniper scout symbol not being that old, you want to know why.....wait for it..... Ironically, they are jews.